Another "Get off my lawn" moment from the washed-up: ULNS??

[sirreal63]

The difference in light is not that significant and bio-pellets are traditional in the sense that it is one item for a carbon source, no different than using vinegar, with no need in adding back a lot of anonymous additives. The form is solid instead of a liquid but other than that, there isn't a lot of difference and if Krzysztof had went with VSV the results would have been the same.

It is easy to say it is just because of a difference in light, but if you look at the corals and not just the sand you will see the color difference in the entire coral. One look at the top left of the tank between both shows this pretty clearly. It isn't the light that makes the green tips and brown patches on the stems, it is the brown patches that give the brown color, if it were just the light than the tips would also be brown.

In no way am I knocking Zeo, but for someone to suggest all the best looking tanks are Zeo is not very accurate. There are beautiful tanks with just about any methodology in use.

 

[Allmost]

The difference in light is not that significant and bio-pellets are traditional in the sense that it is one item for a carbon source, no different than using vinegar, with no need in adding back a lot of anonymous additives. The form is solid instead of a liquid but other than that, there isn't a lot of difference and if Krzysztof had went with VSV the results would have been the same.

It is easy to say it is just because of a difference in light, but if you look at the corals and not just the sand you will see the color difference in the entire coral. One look at the top left of the tank between both shows this pretty clearly. It isn't the light that makes the green tips and brown patches on the stems, it is the brown patches that give the brown color, if it were just the light than the tips would also be brown.

In no way am I knocking Zeo, but for someone to suggest all the best looking tanks are Zeo is not very accurate. There are beautiful tanks with just about any methodology in use.

Blue actinic lighting, makes corals look different, it brings out the fluorescent.

please note that, brown under white lighting will look brown.

brown under actinic will only show fluorescent, which is what you are seeing in the video.

I agree that zeo is not the only way to go. 100% agreed on that. but it is the only full system out there. biopellets miss alot. best thing to look at, is to see how many ppl use GFO with carbon dosing.
100% of pellet users use GFO with it, none of zovit users use GFO .... that's a huge factor showing which system is more capable of removing and recycling nutrients.

 

[Allmost]

I think this post just goes to show nature does it best...we'll all agree there I think...

no questions there.

all we try to do is to duplicate what these coral look in nature

 

[karsseboom]

I think this post just goes to show nature does it best...we'll all agree there I think...

And your 100% positive that that coral would have looked better in the ocean?

What about this?

Vs

 

[jazzman7838]

They don't have that glowing vibrancy

lol okay

 

[karsseboom]

In no way am I knocking Zeo, but for someone to suggest all the best looking tanks are Zeo is not very accurate. There are beautiful tanks with just about any methodology in use.

I never meant that message to get across. We can all agree that zeovit produces a glowing, pastel appearance in corals not commonly found in traditional methods that don't use carbon dosing.

Let me rephrase that...Its easier to achieve those results using zeovit or carbon dosing.

 

[naterealbig]

Perhaps my favorite tank on Reef Central. No Zeo. No Live Rock. Credit for the aquarium and the photos goes to Denadai. The methodology used in this aquarium (essentially) is very similar to that of galleon.

 

[Allmost]

There are an awful lot of Zeo tanks out there that appear to me to have very unnatural and washed out looking corals though.

thats personal opinion though. I personally like my corals on the pastel side ... makes them look better to me under blue lighting, so I dose zeospure2. many of my friends dont agree and say my corals look like in LFS after 24 hours of being in bag ... but I like it ...

that shows the great flexibility of the zeovit system ... you can alter each variable, to alter colors, to what you want. cause there is more than just one variable.

personal preference ....

 

[sirreal63]

Blue actinic lighting, makes corals look different, it brings out the fluorescent.

please note that, brown under white lighting will look brown.

brown under actinic will only show fluorescent, which is what you are seeing in the video.

Are you really suggesting that actintic will change brown to green? :wave:


Perhaps you should read his threads...all the way through.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1755962

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17200650

I gave up zeo immediately and replaced it with biopellets. If your tank is in good form, you can do it this way. But if you want to play safe, don't take zeolites and keep a reactor with pellets at the same time. After 2-3 weeks remove the zeolites.
The color of corals became deeper, they aren't so pale like in zeo method.
I mainly rely on frequent water changes and add anything sporadically.

Krzysztof

Everyone has different tastes in coral colors, some like pale colors some like deeper colors. While I can appreciate the work involved in the Zeo method, it certainly isn't for everyone. I have had many close friends over the years try it and eventually they all stopped with the same two complaints, too much work and the corals got too pale. Long ago it was referred to as skating on the edge, and while I know it is possible to have deeper coloration with Zeo, only a few have managed that I have seen, most just have pastel corals.

As with any method, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. It is possible to strip too many nutrients out of any tank, and more and more people have been doing just that with excessive carbon dosing and over use of GFO.

To each his own, pale or not.

 

[Allmost]

lets agree to disagree ... I do not have a way to prove to you that corals colors look different under actinic, and if I post my pics it would be thought of as I photoshopped them.


I really do not understand your argument though . Zeovit basic = bacteria, surface area, carbon.
pellets = carbon, surface area.

so how can you say pellets are BETTER ?

they are easier to use, for those who just want to know how many ml to put in, but for those who want to think deeper, spend more time, and have more skills, zeovit gives you all flexibilities.

its like driving a automatic car, or a stick car .... automatic just goes, or stops, while with stick you have more flexibility on what to do with the car. now many ppl can not drive stick, or dont like it, due to difficulty, but that takes nothing away from the stick cars ....

so if you can please clearly put your argument in one sentence so I can understand, I would appreciate it.
dont tell me what your friends think, lets talk theory.

from above, I guess you point is that zeovit is too efficient ... in tht case, I agree with you, it can be super potent, thats why only skilled aquarist should attempt it.

lastly, I agree fully that ZEOVIT is NOT for everyone, same way fast or stick cars are not for everyone.

originally, this thread was about ULNS ... so perhaps we can look passed the method to reach ULNS, and look at the ULNS reef itself ... pellets, zeo, vodka, doesnt matter what you use, the end result is the same. ultra low nutrition system. you have brown, and pale in one post about zeovit, which makes no sense if it makes corals pale, then the user who has brown corals un zeo tank shows the user didnt use it correctly right ?

.
anyways ...

 

[karsseboom]

Are you really suggesting that actintic will change brown to green? :wave:


Perhaps you should read his threads...all the way through.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1755962

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17200650



Everyone has different tastes in coral colors, some like pale colors some like deeper colors. While I can appreciate the work involved in the Zeo method, it certainly isn't for everyone. I have had many close friends over the years try it and eventually they all stopped with the same two complaints, too much work and the corals got too pale. Long ago it was referred to as skating on the edge, and while I know it is possible to have deeper coloration with Zeo, only a few have managed that I have seen, most just have pastel corals.

As with any method, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. It is possible to strip too many nutrients out of any tank, and more and more people have been doing just that with excessive carbon dosing and over use of GFO.

To each his own, pale or not.

Agreed a 100%. On my new tank I'm using less then the recommend amounts of all zeovit products. I don't want zeovit to consume my system I just have it in place to help fight no3 and po4 and I like he fact I don't have to use gfo or a refugium.

 

[karsseboom]

Perhaps my favorite tank on Reef Central. No Zeo. No Live Rock. Credit for the aquarium and the photos goes to Denadai. The methodology used in this aquarium (essentially) is very similar to that of galleon.

This is one perfect example of not using zeovit and getting the same results. Please understand that he keeps his tank extraordinary clean and probably has some of the best husbandry I have ever seen.

 

[Allmost]

its very simple ...

ULNS = low nutritions, through bacteria "locking up" nutrients, which corals can use. there is NOT too much N in water for bacteria to go brown, yet there is food for corals [bacteria]

now bad ULNS = dead corals, with tissue stripping from bottom up.

Good ULNS = low N and P, light corals, TISSue dARKNESS maintained via feeding.

 

[sirreal63]

I am not saying pellets are better, there is no better here, just different. Every day we see people starving their tanks with too much carbon dosing and too much GFO. Typically they blame their light when the real issue is the corals are starving.

Light, I have used just about every light that has been available in the past 10 years. Actintic does not change brown to green, ever. If you are suggesting that the whiter light from the two video's makes the green on the tips look brown in just the stems then that just does not make sense. How would be tips be green and the main body be brown if it is just the light? Forget all about the second video for the moment, how is the light able to show just the tips green and the body brown if the tips are not green and the body of the coral not brown? The tips are green because they are green and the brown is brown because, well, it is brown. It isn't the angle because it shows the same all around the coral. There should be no disagreement here, what is green is green, what is brown is brown under the whiter light, same tank, same light, same coral.

My interest here is not to say one is better than the other, my interest in this thread is purely in the Zeo method. It's something I know very little about and like many of us, I enjoy the learning aspect of the hobby as much as the outcome. My limited experience in the method comes from people here and my own personal friends who have tried and abandoned the method.

What I had hoped would happen in this thread would be a better explanation of the method by people who use it, not anyone proclaiming one method was better than the other. You cannot interact with the online articles, they just don't answer questions.

Everyone in this thread should respect each other, we do things differently but that is a good thing, not a bad thing. The discussion ideally would have people learning at least something from each other. :thumbsup:

 

[Allmost]

Light, I have used just about every light that has been available in the past 10 years. Actintic does not change brown to green, ever. If you are suggesting that the whiter light from the two video's makes the green on the tips look brown in just the stems then that just does not make sense. How would be tips be green and the main body be brown if it is just the light? Forget all about the second video for the moment, how is the light able to show just the tips green and the body brown if the tips are not green and the body of the coral not brown? The tips are green because they are green and the brown is brown because, well, it is brown. It isn't the angle because it shows the same all around the coral. There should be no disagreement here, what is green is green, what is brown is brown under the whiter light, same tank, same light, same coral.

sorry I disagree. I see it daily.
blue = fluorescent pigments excited. just look at the dive pics, most corals look brown, then they use flash and correct colors, and you se the beauty/true colors

My interest here is not to say one is better than the other, my interest in this thread is purely in the Zeo method. It something I know very little about and like many of us, I enjoy the learning aspect of the hobby as much as the outcome. My limited experience in the method comes from people here and my own personal friends who have tried and abandoned the method.

there is another active thread on this SPS forums, about zeovit, called "zeovit - System" lets move this there, and lets keep this thread for ULNS


I dont think I was disrespectful to anyone, so not sure why would say that we are having a discussion, and I was trying to break it down, so we can talk about each aspect there is ULNS, then carbon dosing, then different ways of carbon dosing ...

if we agree ULNS and carbon dosing are good, then we can mov to each individual method.

pellets, are simpler than zeovit, as I said last [respectfully, as I do not mean this about u or anyone, and it wont bring anyone down] some ppl like to just know how much of this to dose, while some others like to understand what X and Y do, and then observe their reef, and based on that decide what to dose and how much ... for the first class of respectfull reefers, pellets + GFO are better.

for second class of reefers, perhaps with too much free time lol then zeovit makes sense. cause instead of just amount of pellets and flow through, you have about 10 variables you can play with. amount of zeolith, flow through it, bacteria, carbon, and so on ... Hope I made sense
now more variables, means more things can go wrong, just like more holes = higher chance of glass breaking but more variables, also means more flexibility.

 

[Allmost]

Switch to HD, it makes a difference.
Zeo


After stopping Zeo

just look at the picture of the first fame without playing video .

the blue stag, MUCH larger in second picture, it has grown, and is getting more light, + blue light, makes it look that way.

same with the red millie tabling. and of course the green on the left side.

the green has grown more uniformly in second picture, so you do not see in between branches as much, hence more uniform green.

I like second one more. I agree with you, but I think thats cause of the growth /blue light / and in all honesty, the blue stag looks more pale in second picture, dont you think ? [I like it paler like it looks in second pic ]

 

[tdb320reef]

just look at the picture of the first fame without playing video .

the blue stag, MUCH larger in second picture, it has grown, and is getting more light, + blue light, makes it look that way.

same with the red millie tabling. and of course the green on the left side.

the green has grown more uniformly in second picture, so you do not see in between branches as much, hence more uniform green.

I like second one more. I agree with you, but I think thats cause of the growth /blue light / and in all honesty, the blue stag looks more pale in second picture, dont you think ? [I like it paler like it looks in second pic ]

Maybe this was stated but didn't he switch to Biopellets.

 

[sirreal63]

I think they both look great but I also prefer the overall look of the second video, not because of the additional blue light, but the corals themselves look healthier with deeper colors. The only thing that really matters is Krzysztof preferred the tank after stopping Zeo, his reasons are the one's I happen to agree with.

 

[sirreal63]

Maybe this was stated but didn't he switch to Biopellets.

Yes and is part of the difference between the video's.

 

[Allmost]

well I too like the second picture more, as the corals are more grown in, tank is more stablished, and lighting suites the corals more.

colors are more PALE though ! so I have no Idea what you re saying, look at the blue stag !

not sure how anyone can miss the size of colonies .....

too bad I have no skills in putting the frames beside each other to point out what I am sying ...

seems like what I am saying is being missed by you jack, so Ill stop or maybe you are just reading the parts of my post that you like and ignoring the points I made ....