Blenny Powers
New member
Running biopellets with near zero po4 and no3. Think I'll stick with what works for me. I do very little dosing and everything looks great. No macro or refugium. Just the pellets and no chemicals.
Another "Get off my lawn" moment from the washed-up: ULNS??
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Blenny Powers
New member
I'm also not using gfo. I pulled it because it was causing more problems than it solved. System working great.
Haters gonna hate, some ppl consider their method like a religion and act like radical extremists defending it or defaming others, you cannot have reasonable conversations with these ppl. I see both zeo haters and lovers on this thread that fall into this category.
Here's one for you guys to change the subject a bit. It seems like it's become a BP vs zeo flame war. I'm trying to use both to a degree. I'm using biopellets, zeobak and zeofood7. I also have amino acids and phols extra but I haven't started using them since it's a new system. I plan to use more of the zeo stuff once I have more corals and get some growth. Any potential problems with my plan? I'm thinking the biopellets will do the work of zeolites + zeostart but I'm a little worried about phosphates. I'd also like to feed the tank heavily and still have an "ULNS". Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've seen nice tanks from many different methods so I'd be happy with huge pastel corals or huge rich corals. I'm not as picky, just want good growth and colors that aren't brown. Any advice would be appreciated and thanks in advance. I do think it's funny arguing over who's tank is prettier when all are stunning!
karsseboom
New member
It's complete system because there are additives for almost every situation. I wouldn't call bio pellets a complete system, I would call basic carbon dosing a complete system.
The basic four I mentioned helps keep no3 and po4 lower and the other additives help replace what being used up giving the system a perfect balance of import and export.
There are additives like zeospur that will actually lighten tissue. There are additive like Phols extra that help give the tissue more depth.
The key to keeping Sps is always the balance between importing and exporting nutrients. Once you reach the balance your Sps will have the desired color.
karsseboom
New member
I would think you would still need gfo to lower po4. In my opinion it's the zeolites that really help lower po4.
I don't see anything wrong with that approach. People are doing the same thing.
jazzman7838
New member
I guess I am ****ing into the wind by trying to point out that saying "it's a complete system" doesn't really mean anything at all. And plenty of systems can claim to have a "perfect balance" of import and export.
You have stated very clearly that there is a difference in the appearance of Zeovit tanks that other methods cannot accomplish. I'm trying to determine what part of the Zeovit system you think accomplishes that.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave!
dowtish
New member
I have run pellets for the life of my tank. Almost 3 years now, and have never run GFO. My phosphate levels are 0.00 right now(hanna checker) despite feeding both fish and corals very heavily.
karsseboom
New member
I don't think you can pin point any particular thing to a successful reef tank. It's always a combination of things that make a success.
I think the success comes from riding a very fine line of ulns at the same time allowing corals to have proper nutrition coupled with strong t5 lighting give the corals a nice pastel glowing appearance. I think zeospur helps along with Phols extra but if your looking for me to say one blue bottle is the secret key to have corals like that its not gonna happen.
Moser
Active member
Not sure why you need to have more specifics.
You know it has some sort of carbon source"¦. The exact mixture is intellectual property.
You know it uses zeolites"¦. The exact type is intellectual property.
You know it uses a bacterial source"¦. The exact strains are intellectual property.
You know it uses food supplements to specifically feed the nutrient deprived corals"¦. The exact types are intellectual property.
You know it uses certain trace elements in high concentrations and others in low concentrations. Some of the ones used may surprise us, by all accounts, but the exact constituents are intellectual property"¦.
The common denominator is that if used correctly, you can have stunning looking corals. If used incorrectly, you can have a crap tank.
If you wish to copy the ingredients, there are early threads in which this was tried with limited success. You can look them up.
If you have no desire to run the system, then you are either bored, hate mongering or planning to use alternatives to achieve the same results. i.e. rip off somebody's intellectual property.. It happens a lot. If none of the above, then what's going on?"¦. if genuinely interested, the manual explains a lot as do Shadowramy's sticky. Read away.
Mo
ridetheducati
20 and Over Club
not sure why you need to have more specifics.
You know it has some sort of carbon source"¦. The exact mixture is intellectual property.
You know it uses zeolites"¦. The exact type is intellectual property.
You know it uses a bacterial source"¦. The exact strains are intellectual property.
You know it uses food supplements to specifically feed the nutrient deprived corals"¦. The exact types are intellectual property.
You know it uses certain trace elements in high concentrations and others in low concentrations. Some of the ones used may surprise us, by all accounts, but the exact constituents are intellectual property"¦.
The common denominator is that if used correctly, you can have stunning looking corals. If used incorrectly, you can have a crap tank.
If you wish to copy the ingredients, there are early threads in which this was tried with limited success. You can look them up.
If you have no desire to run the system, then you are either bored, hate mongering or planning to use alternatives to achieve the same results. I.e. Rip off somebody's intellectual property.. It happens a lot. If none of the above, then what's going on?"¦. If genuinely interested, the manual explains a lot as do shadowramy's sticky. Read away.
mo
+1
jazzman7838
New member
Because like any curious person, I want to know how stuff works. Especially stuff that is claimed to be superior to what I currently use, costs a lot of money, and refuses to divulge exactly how it works. You can thank the people who felt the same about DSBs, Eco-Aqualizers, Marc Weiss products, etc. for the same curiosity.
Okay, so we are back to the argument on page 6. When it was mentioned that nobody seems to know how it works, just that it does, the response was that there is no mystery. But apparently there is some mystery.
Many aquarium products and supplements are very clear about how they work. There is no mystery about how LEDs, needlewheel skimmers, Vortechs, metal halide lights, GFO, GAC, kalkwasser, etc. work. No black boxes. Even many supplements, like B-Ionic, C-Balance, SeaChem, etc. are very clear about what is contained in the mix. Reef Nutrition states pretty clearly what strains of rotifers or algae you are getting in their products, and even tells you how to grow your own if you feel like it.
Same exact thing can be said about pretty much all reefkeeping strategies.
karsseboom
New member
Because like any curious person, I want to know how stuff works. Especially stuff that is claimed to be superior to what I currently use, costs a lot of money, and refuses to divulge exactly how it works. You can thank the people who felt the same about DSBs, Eco-Aqualizers, Marc Weiss products, etc. for the same curiosity.
Okay, so we are back to the argument on page 6. When it was mentioned that nobody seems to know how it works, just that it does, the response was that there is no mystery. But apparently there is some mystery.
Many aquarium products and supplements are very clear about how they work. There is no mystery about how LEDs, needlewheel skimmers, Vortechs, metal halide lights, GFO, GAC, kalkwasser, etc. work. No black boxes. Even many supplements, like B-Ionic, C-Balance, SeaChem, etc. are very clear about what is contained in the mix. Reef Nutrition states pretty clearly what strains of rotifers or algae you are getting in their products, and even tells you how to grow your own if you feel like it.
Same exact thing can be said about pretty much all reefkeeping strategies.
Read my last post I answered your question. If you still can't figure out what is causing the zeovit look then maybe there is some learning about keeping Sps you need to do first.
All those things you mentioned are 2 part additives, that is entirly different. Zeovit has magnesium which they clearly state it's contents. You are grasping for straws now. Are you intrested in using zeovit or not? I can help you get started. If not then there is no point in your debate.
Fixed that for ya.
MammothReefer
Active member
I don't, I don't dose anything. I'm also not saying zeo doesn't do what it claims In some cases - Zeo as a carbon source works.. all the extras who knows.. Take flatworm stop, it was such a farce they had to go back and change the collateral. I've used it in the past but I can never be sure if it was the product or the extra attentive husbandry that did the trick when I was using that product.
Moser
Active member
Because like any curious person, I want to know how stuff works. Especially stuff that is claimed to be superior to what I currently use, costs a lot of money, and refuses to divulge exactly how it works. You can thank the people who felt the same about DSBs, Eco-Aqualizers, Marc Weiss products, etc. for the same curiosity.
Oh!, really?!. We have you to thank for your curiosity??. :lolspin:
Much is already know about bacterial driven systems!, certainly enough to know they work, there is no mystery in that! . What you are asking for is exact recipe's and as you know, this will never be given up by it's creators. What gives us the red, the pinks, the blues, we may never find out, but those blue bottles seem to have the effect on corals that it says on the label. Unfortunately, as with many things in life, you take faith in claims and use them, or you disbelieve and walk away..... It's that simple. Asking users questions that nobody has answers to is pointless!.
So is this about you wanting to make your own, so that you don't have to pay for it?. That's the whole reason the recipe has not been divulged. He doesn't want the world copying his product. He has been successful in that. The fact is, nobody knows. We are all in the same position. We all have enough info to know the basic mechanisms, but no more. We know that vodka/ vinegar/ Biopellets have similar fundamental mechanisms and that a mix of those make up the carbon source in Zeovit. He won't tell you the exact recipe, because we would all copy it!. in fact, much of his work has already been copied and that is where all the carbon source driven systems have come from!!. The only bit that hasn't is the recipe of his advanced supplements. Nobody knows what's in them and nobody has managed to copy them!. Some have tried and we have the FM systems for example, but nobody has managed to copy his whole system. The Far East did just make rip offs with all sorts of stuff in them a few years ago, in an attempt to rip off Zeovit, but it soon got found out!.....
The other solutions, nobody really knows and that is what has made his product so unique and successful!.
Look at Biopellets. Developed in Europe, patented and released and then copied by the whole world. The originator made peanuts from his intellectual property.
That is just what everybody else is trying to do. Claiming the need for intellectual information about a product, but the under current of persistence suggests that actually you just want the recipe so you/ they can copy it!.. That is always what these Zeo threads are about. The same is happening inUK forums about the new Triton method.
A few persistent reefers, consistently bashing the Triton method, so they can get a recipe and make their own version.:lmao:
Mo
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DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Apologies for the diversion.
You used the magic word. :uzi:
A lot of people in the UK are wondering how you can sustain a reef tank without water changes in long term using this method. They also wonder how leaving macro algae in sump to rot without nutrient export can possibly help a reef tank in long term. I am sure there are also some among them who are curious about the ingredients of those three bottles, but I am not one of them.
karsseboom
New member
Flatworm stop is excluded from the disscussion because its a problem solver for pest control and is not part of the main system. That would be like saying I don't trust salifert dkh test because I found there flatworm product to not be effective.
MammothReefer
Active member
No it doesn't. If I have a bad experience with one of saliferts test kits I wouldn't trust any of there test kits or products for that matter. My tank has taken years of my time, and money. I try my best not to mess around playing games as to which products from a company work and which don't, sometimes it can't be avoided. So if I have an issue with one of zeos products why would I trust any of there products. Again I've used the stuff it worked for what I wanted (not the flarworm stop), however had I used flatworm stop first I never would have bought the other products because you have to buy them on faith the they are going to do what the manufacturer claims. Yes there are a lot of nice tanks running zeo there are also alot of equally nice tanks that run other means of carbon dosing, or no carbon dosing at all. Does the system work, or does it just provide you with a really great routine? (Ie like flatworm stop which got people basting their corals per the instructions)
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