tahiriqbal
Sialkot
double post...sorry
Another option for red bugs
- Thread starter Whisperer
- Start date
FFalas
New member
Hi Tahir, thanks for the info, that is where I bought it from but although it quotes prices in GBP it still ships from the US so ended up paying short of 50 quid of a bottle. Have spent sillier money in this hobby so I cant complain too much really, but would love a cheaper local option. 
Looking fwd to receiving it, in the meantime I will strip all SPS off the reef and QT them between CoralRx dips.
Whisperer: I was more concerned about in-tank deaths after the frags were placed back in the tank post-dip. I have a mandarin and the tank is only a 60g so cant afford too much of a pod wipeout as some of the posters had mentioned here. I have all my frags attached to tiny rocks which are milliputted to the rock, as far as coralrx goes I presume I can dunk the frag in the dip with the rock but for the insecticide i presume suggestion is to get the frag off the rock in that case? (I am worried about the rock absorbing too much of the product and leaking it back in tank).
Dustin: tx for the sheet, have seen some dipped a hystrix, would presume these are not affected though, correct? Will update info on my dips when the stuff arrives..
Lastly, has anyone actually been able to prove the time it takes to starve the FW in DT once all acros are taken out? I am planning to strip all acros and treat them away from DT, dipping every other day and back to QT for a week/10 days and then hopefully re-entering them in a AEFW free dt? or are my hopes a little too high?
Thanks guys!
Looking fwd to receiving it, in the meantime I will strip all SPS off the reef and QT them between CoralRx dips.Whisperer: I was more concerned about in-tank deaths after the frags were placed back in the tank post-dip. I have a mandarin and the tank is only a 60g so cant afford too much of a pod wipeout as some of the posters had mentioned here. I have all my frags attached to tiny rocks which are milliputted to the rock, as far as coralrx goes I presume I can dunk the frag in the dip with the rock but for the insecticide i presume suggestion is to get the frag off the rock in that case? (I am worried about the rock absorbing too much of the product and leaking it back in tank).
Dustin: tx for the sheet, have seen some dipped a hystrix, would presume these are not affected though, correct? Will update info on my dips when the stuff arrives..
Lastly, has anyone actually been able to prove the time it takes to starve the FW in DT once all acros are taken out? I am planning to strip all acros and treat them away from DT, dipping every other day and back to QT for a week/10 days and then hopefully re-entering them in a AEFW free dt? or are my hopes a little too high?
Thanks guys!
Whisperer
New member
I believe the FW do not wander, they spread by riding in the water column (just a speculation at this point) because infection of other corals seem to be random rather than the adjacent coral, I noticed. Someone may know the life cycle.
I do not recommend repeated dipping. One dip lasting 10-15 minutes should be fine, provide plenty of water movement. Also, check the bare areas for clumps of brown eggs. Remove them manually using a small knife or something (I used a scalpel).
I do not recommend repeated dipping. One dip lasting 10-15 minutes should be fine, provide plenty of water movement. Also, check the bare areas for clumps of brown eggs. Remove them manually using a small knife or something (I used a scalpel).
FFalas
New member
Have taken action today.. Taken the sickest coral (a paled out acro nana) out of the tank without much hope of saving it.. It was infested with eggs between branches.. Took a few good pics and vid which i will upload later. Inspected carefully and couldnt see anything, dunked it in cold tap water, a coupe of basts and now i have about 100 of the horrible critters at the bottom of the container!!
Would never have expected such a level of infestation granted the nana fell slowly ill over 4months..
Anyways, am now going to take the next sickest acro and dump it in a very quick (FW came off the nana instantly) salted cold water bath and place it in a QT tank to see if it survives.. As i wait for the bayer to arrive ill monitor this test coral over a few of days and if it works i will try this for the other acros which so far are showing very little signs of being predated (just some dieoff on the base of the formosa). Have read some sporadic posts on Cold water dips but there is very little literature about it that i could find..
One thing i am worrying about though is the QT - would a simple vat with a powerhead and some tank water and a light on top be enough to keep them going for a week or so? This still in the hope that any Fw still in tank will starve over such a short period..
Would never have expected such a level of infestation granted the nana fell slowly ill over 4months..
Anyways, am now going to take the next sickest acro and dump it in a very quick (FW came off the nana instantly) salted cold water bath and place it in a QT tank to see if it survives.. As i wait for the bayer to arrive ill monitor this test coral over a few of days and if it works i will try this for the other acros which so far are showing very little signs of being predated (just some dieoff on the base of the formosa). Have read some sporadic posts on Cold water dips but there is very little literature about it that i could find..
One thing i am worrying about though is the QT - would a simple vat with a powerhead and some tank water and a light on top be enough to keep them going for a week or so? This still in the hope that any Fw still in tank will starve over such a short period..
divewsharks
Active member
As Whisperer has said, do not dip everyday or other day. Once a week/10 days is good (you can baste in between). Your goal with once a week dips is to catch newly hatched FW's as the dip does not kill eggs. You should plan on keeping the corals in QT for a month, a week is too short of a time period.
FFalas
New member
Yes, planning to take whisperers advice on the dip frequency.. The other corals dont show signs of eggs but will give another inspection.. Because of this i am planning not to baste in tank to keep as many on their food to treat out of tank and qt hopefully returning FW free corals to a FW free tank after some quarantining.. Am wondering about the prospects with the cold water dips now having seen the speed at which they fell off the nana..so quickly that i would think sps should survive a 20sec dip in cold water and back to tank (or QT in this case) - if i find eggs i will prob consider chucking the coral altogether.. 
divewsharks
Active member
i would worry about the stress of such a rapid temperature change.
The eggs should either be on some dead spots on the coral or around the base, including the surrounding rock they are attached too.
The eggs should either be on some dead spots on the coral or around the base, including the surrounding rock they are attached too.
Wow!
So I just dipped my corals in the GERM KILLER bayer product, if the corals do okay after the dip, this is definitely my new dip procedure!
Little background on the corals...
I had been dipping everything Acros and Montis in PraziPro for AEFW at a ratio of 7ml per gallon. Well I moved and had a friend hold them while I got my tank setup. They noticed red bugs and did an interceptor treatment on them.
Well I got the new tank up and had added a monti to it to test it out. Then I got my corals back and dipped them again in the PraziPro at 7 ml per gallon and added them in.
Afterwords I found this thread, and today I got a couple more corals so I figured I'd just dip all my corals because they are mostly small frags and mini colonies that haven't encrusted the reef structure yet.
I did Bayer Germ Killer at 4ml per L for 15 min. Then they went into a rinse bucket with PraziPro at 7ml per gallon. Then into the tank.
The corals slimed a lot in the germ killer dip and after I took them out there were TONS, of what I think are AEFW. They seem oval shape and bigger than I would expect a red bug to be. The kind of scrunch up then expand to move. Do I have the ID correct???? There were some more in the PraziPro dip bucket as well, but most came off in the Germ Killer.
I might have to start doing this more frequently on the established corals to eradicate them. But for sure all new corals will be going through this dip. I just finished putting everything back in the tank so I will update with how they look a little later.
So I just dipped my corals in the GERM KILLER bayer product, if the corals do okay after the dip, this is definitely my new dip procedure!
Little background on the corals...
I had been dipping everything Acros and Montis in PraziPro for AEFW at a ratio of 7ml per gallon. Well I moved and had a friend hold them while I got my tank setup. They noticed red bugs and did an interceptor treatment on them.
Well I got the new tank up and had added a monti to it to test it out. Then I got my corals back and dipped them again in the PraziPro at 7 ml per gallon and added them in.
Afterwords I found this thread, and today I got a couple more corals so I figured I'd just dip all my corals because they are mostly small frags and mini colonies that haven't encrusted the reef structure yet.
I did Bayer Germ Killer at 4ml per L for 15 min. Then they went into a rinse bucket with PraziPro at 7ml per gallon. Then into the tank.
The corals slimed a lot in the germ killer dip and after I took them out there were TONS, of what I think are AEFW. They seem oval shape and bigger than I would expect a red bug to be. The kind of scrunch up then expand to move. Do I have the ID correct???? There were some more in the PraziPro dip bucket as well, but most came off in the Germ Killer.
I might have to start doing this more frequently on the established corals to eradicate them. But for sure all new corals will be going through this dip. I just finished putting everything back in the tank so I will update with how they look a little later.
Dustin,
I like the spread sheet but I'm still having trouble deciphering product names throughout the thread .
For clarification: In the spread sheet when you reference Reef complete is it the Home insect killer with germ killer(phenylphental 0,30% and cyfluthrin .05%)? and when you reference Reef Complete concentrate is it the soil product(Imidaclopid .72%, cyfluthrin .36%) ?Or is there some concentrated version of the home product?
I like the spread sheet but I'm still having trouble deciphering product names throughout the thread .
For clarification: In the spread sheet when you reference Reef complete is it the Home insect killer with germ killer(phenylphental 0,30% and cyfluthrin .05%)? and when you reference Reef Complete concentrate is it the soil product(Imidaclopid .72%, cyfluthrin .36%) ?Or is there some concentrated version of the home product?
tahiriqbal
Sialkot
From what I have heard and read that cyfluthrin could be highly toxic to fish and many inverts etc. I guess we are not doing such treatments in our tanks but how would one know that such use of chemicals could have long term effects on their livestock!! I guess this could be an issue if one treats large colony or colonies or number of frags!!! Surely coral structure must absorb some chemicals for short while and with large treatment, you may be running a risk! IMHO, treat the corals but with small number of frags per treatment, stick to recommended dose and keep a close eye on your treated corals and most importantly your livestock....
Tahir
Tahir
From what I have heard and read that cyfluthrin could be highly toxic to fish and many inverts etc. posted by Tahiiriqbbal
Here is a bit more on cyfluthrin toxcity:
"..pyrethroids are toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. At extremely small levels, such as 2 parts per trillion.."
From this :<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethroid#cite_note-5</sup>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethroid
Note; cyfluthrin is a pryethroid.
Here is a bit more on cyfluthrin toxcity:
"..pyrethroids are toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. At extremely small levels, such as 2 parts per trillion.."
From this :<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethroid#cite_note-5</sup>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethroid
Note; cyfluthrin is a pryethroid.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
Tom,
Have you tried any of these Bayer products?
I have been playing with eliminating AEFW by heavy, continuous dosing of Interceptor (~4xDustin's dosage) for 72 hrs. Then heavy carbon, wait a week and blast Interceptor again. This all takes place in a QT 40breeder.
I place the corals back in DT and amazingly 3 months later I will find a 5mmx3mm worm on a specific tricolor.
I know I haven't seen red bugs in over 9 months, but it seems I must miss just a few eggs in the dips or the egg gestation period to death is not 4-6 weeks but more like 8 weeks.
Have you or anyone on the Bayer thread experimented with Interceptor heavy dosing or Levamisole before the Bayer product? Guess I'm 'iffy' on a product with only 1+yr of usage. I guess I just need a little more reassurance before I go to HD/Lowe's. $1/gr for Levamisole is pricey when your into flipping coral like myself.
Thanks!
Frank,
I bought the Bayer product but haven't used it . May just use it for it's intended purpose. . The cyfluthrin potential for residue worries me but I'm a cautious type. Don't have any major red bug or aefw issues right now worth the risk to my system .
As I understand it interceptor will be harder to get in the future as the manufacturer has suspended production at lest for now.
I bought the Bayer product but haven't used it . May just use it for it's intended purpose. . The cyfluthrin potential for residue worries me but I'm a cautious type. Don't have any major red bug or aefw issues right now worth the risk to my system .
As I understand it interceptor will be harder to get in the future as the manufacturer has suspended production at lest for now.
Whisperer
New member
I have not lost any other animal in the display tank even without rinsing after the dip. People like to rinse after dipping, that is fine. No one had reported loss of fish, crustacean, etc. in the DT after dipping for as long as this thread has been running. I suggest that you do not use this method if you have concerns.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
Whisperer,
Noted on your suggestion if I have concerns. I really don't have too much concern. Obviously when I dose Intercepter at 4x Dustin's dose, Revive at 3-4X recomended dose and Levamisole at 1.5x I know the risks as these large doses seems to kill worms, stars, polychaetes and mini snails in minutes in some cases. I'm ok with the risk of over-dosing on dips and multi-hr soakings, but the uncertainty of the Bayer cyfluthrin ingredient and it's toxic nature does have me concerned.
tmz,
If Interceptor is on it's wayout like Levamisole, I stocking up with a few boxes. That stuff worked great for 24-72hr soaks in QT.... Let me guess, some crack head is putting this in his bath salts now....:thumbdown
I'm glad there are no losses with Bayer but parts per trillion toxicity in water is a very very small amount and gives me pause.
I don't know why\ interceptor production has been halted or if it will restart. Here is the source of the information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milbemycin_oxime
Nonetheless, finding alternatives is a needed effort.
I don't know why\ interceptor production has been halted or if it will restart. Here is the source of the information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milbemycin_oxime
Nonetheless, finding alternatives is a needed effort.
jcw
Active member
i thought i read that novartis' patent runs out on interceptor. Many times a drug company will not find it financially advantageous to continuing production of a drug once their exclusive patent runs out.
just a guess.
I was on wikipedia trying to look up different insecticides/antiparasitics and the parasitic harptacoid copepod (Tegastidae). And quickly found myself over my head. I wish a specialist in bugs and insecticides could be consulted for the benefit of the community. I'm sure there are alternatives...
Well the cyfluthrin kills em and folks using it haven't reported toxicity related events.
If I had more info on breakdown in water I might be less concerned but from what I read they find this stuff in wastewater treatment effluent which seems to suggest it doesn't breakdown well in water.I 'm just not sure enough about it and any potential for buildup to risk it personally. The threshold for toxicity is super low too.
Apparently it breaks down quickly in the air and sunlight so it doesn't get to the groundwater. Someone with more knowlege of this chemcal, in particular it's toxicity to fish and it's refractory or non refractory nature in water, might chime in if we're lucky.
If I had more info on breakdown in water I might be less concerned but from what I read they find this stuff in wastewater treatment effluent which seems to suggest it doesn't breakdown well in water.I 'm just not sure enough about it and any potential for buildup to risk it personally. The threshold for toxicity is super low too.
Apparently it breaks down quickly in the air and sunlight so it doesn't get to the groundwater. Someone with more knowlege of this chemcal, in particular it's toxicity to fish and it's refractory or non refractory nature in water, might chime in if we're lucky.
