Another option for red bugs

Thanks all fo rthe studies and homework!!!

Ok, is there a concensus on which product to get? Seems many are usiing a variation of 3-4 different bayer ones as well as all over the board with doses and times??

Say you have:(sps)
-red bugs.......................Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins
-AEFW...........................Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins
-flatworms(planaria).........Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins
-General new SPS coral dip......Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins to blast all sps pests.
-General zoa' & softie coral dip....
-LPS.....


Thanks,

I am off to get one as soon as I hear back. Plan to get the Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer. Will it work for all needs above?
 
Also anyone try or what abou tmixing 50/50 of the
Bayer Advanced complete insect killer concentrate : Bayer advanced Home pest with germ killer??
 
Just wanted to post that I will be doing an in tank test. Before everyone fires off at me for it I will be using a smaller dose applied directly to the site through a pipette to see the effect on the redbugs and also the effect to the tank. The dose will be premixed down at the 4ml per 1L and I will only be applying it to one coral in tank. Because this insecticide is made inert through light I want to test its effectiveness in a tank. Also I have read through all 22pages of this thread, most pages twice, I understand the risk's associated and am taking some precautions.

Also for reference I will be doing this in a tank with very little in it, not my main 203g display. I have a 55g with some corals in it that I will be placing the acropora in to test in tank treatment. If it kills the redbugs and at the same time leaves the limited number of inhabitants in the tank alone then I will test it on my main display tank. If I find that directly applying to corals in the tank is detrimental then I will remove the entire rock that all of my acros are attached to and will do a treatment to the whole rock with a double rinse cycle to follow. For reference the rock has 9+ acro frags/colonies on it that are encrusted, with an additonal few that are not. The rock weighs total approx. 10lbs.

I will post results here, hopefully with pictures.
 
110galreef said:
Thanks all fo rthe studies and homework!!!

Ok, is there a concensus on which product to get? Seems many are usiing a variation of 3-4 different bayer ones as well as all over the board with doses and times??

Say you have:(sps)
-red bugs.......................Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins
-AEFW...........................Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins
-flatworms(planaria).........Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins
-General new SPS coral dip......Get product "X" and dose at yy:xx rate for zz mins to blast all sps pests.
-General zoa' & softie coral dip....
-LPS.....


Thanks,

I am off to get one as soon as I hear back. Plan to get the Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer. Will it work for all needs above?
Click to expand...

110galreef said:
Also anyone try or what abou tmixing 50/50 of the
Bayer Advanced complete insect killer concentrate : Bayer advanced Home pest with germ killer??
Click to expand...



Bump.....
 
Whisperer said:
Please don't do this. It will wipe away life forms higher than cnidarians. I have a bad feeling about this.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, the amount I will be applying will be less then the residuals on a few unrinsed corals. I want to test if the solution is absorbed into the skin of the Acro's and when consummed by the redbugs will kill them. I am not looking for instant deaths I am looking for prolonged deaths due to (so someone else in this thread put it) eating bad pie.

You have all spoke of not having redbugs retrun to frags that have been treated, suggesting that some of the substance is abosrbed into the acro's them self, if this is the case then the very minor amount I will introduce will slowly kill the redbugs but should not damage the tank.

Like I said the tank has very little life outside of micro fauna in it. A blue/green chromie will be in the tank as the only test subject fish, and a few snails/hermits will be the test subject inverts.

For reference I will be adding total approx <0.5ml of Bayer (Mixed at the ratio of 4ml -> 1L, with only a small amount of the solution used) to 230L of water, Bayer will be applied directly to the site of the acro through a pipette
 
Tmoriarty said:
You have all spoke of not having redbugs retrun to frags that have been treated, suggesting that some of the substance is abosrbed into the acro's them self, if this is the case then the very minor amount I will introduce will slowly kill the redbugs but should not damage the tank.
Click to expand...

This was not true in my case. I removed and treated the coral, only to see them return within 2 weeks. Why don't test this theory yourself? As long as there are redbugs in the tank, they will come back to the coral.
 
110galreef said:
Bump.....
Click to expand...

There are 3 bayer products that can be used. There is the Ready to use solution which is spray on, has a very low concentration of poison and is pre-diluted. Then there is 2 more bayer products that are actual the same in different bottles. One is spray ready through a hose attachment and mixes as you spray it, the other is used in a sprayer that you would mix the ratio in.

The last two are the same product in different bottles. I count those as one product.

The last option is the bayer with germ killer as well.
 
What exact product has seen best results for FLatworms, AEFW, and red bugs.....
Also at what dosage and for how long to dip?
 
Tmoriarty I have been using the Bayer for over two years and have had several experiences with it that lead me to believe adding to the tank as a treatment is not only foolish but irresponsible reef keeping. I have dipped a whole rock once rinsed thoroughly put back in tank then watched as my copperband and powderblue picked the dead worms out of the crevices of the rock and then die within 24 hours.

The active ingredient in bayer is a nerve toxin it will negatively affect the life forms in your tank with nervous systems in even the smallest amounts dosed. Think about it its like treating head lice with a blow torch I do not think this plan thought out completely.
 
yea I wouldn't do that. Your gonna kill all of your micro fauna. EVERYTHING.
Might even kill beneficial bacteria if you think about it.
 
I understand that people disagree with this study. Again this was NOT done in my reef tank it was done in a second tank that has very little life in it currently. I use it as a QT tank, but it does have adequate lighting for SPS as well as being mature, it is just normally a fishless system. The photodegredation of Imidacloprid in water creates a halflife of < 3hours. All of my tests of been done 1 hour in to the lighting cycle that runs for a total of 9hours. For reference on the environmental effects of Imidacloprid refer to:

http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/imid.pdf

Quoted from the above: "The toxicity to fish is low with a LC50 level of 211ppm for the rainbow trout".

While I fully understand that our fish are not the same as a rainbow trout, I referenced it to show the toxicity to fish with complicated nervous systems.

The results so far have been good; I will post pictures most likely tomorrow.

I started with 1ml of Bayer advanced to 500ml of RO/DI. I used one 5ml syringe of solution to apply the Bayer to the coral frag there was no effect to the redbugs or to the tank.

The next day I increased the dosage to 5ml to 500ml, the results were better. Again to maintain continuity I used one 5ml syringe of solution. At this point a few redbugs died on contact. No issues noted with the tank inhabitants (A few inverts and a Blue Chromi).

At this point I waited two days to see if there were any long lasting effects to the tank. I saw none and decided to increase the dosage one last time to 10ml to 500ml. Again one 5ml syringe of solution was used. At this dosage the effects to the direct area were noticeable. Redbugs begin to react erratically immediately. A few copepods in the surrounding area were observed also dying off. After 10 minutes new pods in the area were unaffected. After 6 hours I removed the frag and inspected it. There was only 1 redbug remaining and it had 0 movement.

I will check the tank today when I get home to look for any long lasting effects of the toxin.

As a disclaimer I seriously recommend this to no one. I have been advised by numerous people that this should not be used as an in tank treatment but I felt it had some potential if used in the right dosage.

Total amount of Bayer added to the tank water so far is approx. 0.16ml or less than 2/10th of a ml. Diluted out to 227L of tank water there is less than 0.71ppm Bayer in the tank. This puts approx. 0.0071ppm (7.1ppb) Imidacloprid in the tank. This level is 5 times less than the toxic level associated with mysid shrimp.

I understand that I have no degrees in biology or entomology I am simply conducting a study for others to view.
 
Last edited:
henrystyle said:
yea I wouldn't do that. Your gonna kill all of your micro fauna. EVERYTHING.
Might even kill beneficial bacteria if you think about it.
Click to expand...

Beneficial bacteria would be unaffected by a toxin designed to attack the nervous system as they have no nervous system (similar to corals and why they are mostly unaffected in the proper dosage)
 
Has anyone tried a product called Trifexis? It contains the same ingredients as interceptor plus spinosad? I'm not sure if its in similar amounts (milbemycin oxime) and if the spinosad will kill the coral.Anybody know anything about this?
 
Update: Long lasting effects at this point have been non-existent in visual examination. Redbugs have been killed off 100% on the tested frag with 0 damage to the frag tissue.

Life in the tank has carried on with no noticeable ill effects to the inverts or fish in the system. I am currently looking for an insecticide without b-cyflurin as most any issues I see arising from the treatment is related to that chemical. I will try this experiement again on a larger frag to see if it is effective on a denser coral structure (3"x3" frag).

Results positive or negative will be posted here. Again I am not recommending people go out and put bayer directly into their tanks without proper research into the potential side effects that come with the insecticide.
 
Great thread. I can say I read MOST of it. I am mainly using this for Flatworm eradication. I dipped a few acros in a .5ml to 2 cup water solution and was amazed at how fast the flatworms bailed. I have some more acros in teh tank that are extremely encrusted and near impossible to remove from the rock. so, I dipped that rock last night. I made up 4 gallons of tank water and 6 gallons of clean new salt water for rinse. I messed up my math and added 75 ml to the 4 gallons. it was 4x the dosage I had intended. OOPS. darn math. Anyways, the corals all look a bit discolored now (show didnt show flatworm signs but I wanted to make sure). hoping they make a full recovery. also dipped was a pocilipora that seemed to recover a bit quicker than the others. it was lights out just after the dip so I really havent gotten to see them. those that I dipped in the .5ml solution/2cup solution looked way better as far a PE.
 
Be careful introducing remnants of the insecticide post dip back into the tank during lights out. The chemicals break down much faster under light then they do without it, not that you will have any issues but there is the potential with dipping rocks with acros on it.
 
Thanks for the extra tips, Yes there was alot of asternia and baby Brittle stars i the bucket. I made sure to rinse as well as possible so it should have been good. the lights were on about an hour after re-introduction. plus I have a pretty large volume of water (250 gallons or so).

some photos of others while in the dip
DSC_4189.jpg

DSC_4191.jpg

DSC_4183.jpg
 
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