Anthias Frustration

[shred5]

My one small female lone Ignitus survivor is doing well in my DT as the only anthias in the tank, swimming with the Naso, Orange Shoulder, Hippo and 10 wrasses! So I think she is adjusted :lolspin:

David's response its what is confusing me -- some say their lyretails are no problem and others say they are super mean! I had a mystery wrasse in my other tank that has a mean major wrasse-hole to my other wrasses, so I don't want to repeat that experience. Tank is a 420; will size help mitigate aggression with the lyretail? Some have said yes.

Well I think if you research allot of more people will say lyretails need lots of females to disperse their aggression and also require allot of space to hide.

There are some who also have the same issues people have with chromis. Where even the females are aggressive and they kill the smallest first.

It is their nature and how it is in the wild. Ever see a shoal of them, find a picture and count females to males.

I think some people have had no issues for several reasons. One there are other more aggressive fish that keep them in check. Even though mine beat the hell out of each other the minute something scares them they huddle together. I also think it with the male and what mode he is in. When he is changing he will be more aggressive. I also think as they grow in size they become more aggressive. I think if you research more people have had issues with them than have not and it is the reason they say to keep just one.

My newly changed male lyretail has grown more and now chases other fish, he postures all day long. He used to be ok because my male ignitus was bigger and kept him in check, well that is changing. Now he is also beating on my Bartlett's. I hope it is a phase.

With bartletts they all seem to change to males and fight eventually.

I think with the size tank you have it should be ok.. Lyretails dont seem to shoal in a reef aquarium..
Ignitus and dispar will in most case shoal.

 

[davocean]

I certainly don't consider myself an anthias expert or anything, just relaying my experiences w/ them after having my group of lyretails, dispars, and carbs for 2-3 years, 0 issues other than the submale that happened fairly early at purchase.
I attribute that to getting a male seperately and a group of females that came larger than I wished from LA.
Right now in this tank I have 5 lyretails, all survived to my surprise, not a hint of aggression, though it's only been about 3mo.
My reading and observation here makes me surprised at those that had problems keeping them, especially a couple experienced reefkeepers.
I can't say I agree they need to be kept singly, but I do agree most comments on here strongly suggest that about bartletts.
I have to wonder if those that had problems w lyretails got them as older females that may have been too close to possibly changing and seeking dominance fairly equally.

 

[CHSUB]

my lyretails do well, one turned to a male and he is a little "bossy" but not bad...i have had no success with other types of anthias, for one reason or another, they die or kill each other.

 

[MammoDoc]

That's why I went with Carberryi, Ignitus and Resplendents David P. I just thought I would be able to have more than 3 of 16 stay alive :eek2:

SDguy (Peter) suggested the same thing, that small female lyretails would be the best way to go to minimize the chance that they are changing.

Still confused on what to do next ...

 

[davocean]

Peter is the go to guy for anthias advice for sure.

 

[MammoDoc]

Yes, he is very helpful; everyone one here is and I appreciate the advice. Peter had suggested the Ignitus and Lyretail combo. If my 1 Ignitus makes it out of QT, that will be 2 for the DT. Maybe trying Lyretails is the way to go at this point. I have room, so maybe 6-7 small females would spread the agression?

 

[davocean]

That's where I would start, and continue to add other types.
I have my 5 lyretails now, and plan to add ignitus next, 4-5, and that may be my stopping point in this tank as it's a 120g...maybe 3 carbs....

 

[MammoDoc]

The carbs are beautiful. LA doesn't sex them and BZ only has males. So I wonder if getting "medium" from LA would be problematic?

 

[davocean]

As long as they are not large you are probably fine.
It's a fine line from my exp, the smaller ones do seem more shy and sensitive, so I would actually prefer medium, as long as that is what they actually give you, I have had LA "bonus" me bigger fish than what I ordered before
Though I suppose you could always decline anything that was not exactly what you ordered, LA is pretty good about that at least.

This is a vid not long ago of my tank, still fairly new, this was like 4mo old, lyretails had been in about 3mo.
This is what they do, what I see on a daily basis, the male just keeping an eye on his girls, and actually pays attention to my chromis as well.
Occasionally they will all shoal tightly, anthias and chromis as well, sometimes sit in front of a vort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiMZmj54qgA

 

[shred5]

Another thing is I think over time there are going to be different species of lyretails. If you look at Davocean he has a red/purple variety.
more like this one:

There is also this one

If you look at other males like in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2544583

The male is a completely different color. Mine is a different color and pattern too but closer to the one in that thread.

mine is more like this one:

I have seen all three different colors. They come from different regions but I think there will be different species eventually.
It could also be the difference in temperament.

 

[davocean]

My last lyretails were all from fiji, that was my long time grouping.
I prefer the purple males.
So this run will be interesting, I found a nice purple fiji male at petco, solo, figured it would be doomed so i saved it.
I tried hard to get fiji females, just could not find them, so I went w/ what my LFS called S. Afriicans, or the same you see there, red sea females, they have the blue line at the eye, I find them to be prettier than the fiji females.
If luck rides my way I'll have a fiji male and my harem of red sea females, best of both worlds, so I really hope it stays this way.

 

[MammoDoc]

Yes. I know about the color differences based on geographic collection area. Definitely a factor to consider. All still beautiful. Peter (SDguy) likes and kept the Maldivian females, like shred5's, and he reported to me that they were not that aggressive in his 150. So geographic location may not affect temperment?

 

[LukFox]

I experienced the red spot too. My first batch of 5 Lori anthias all ended up coming down with it in QT and I lost most of them to it.

On round 2, I got 12 of them. This time I decided to treat with an antibiotic immediately upon adding them. Some began to show signs of a possible spot showing up, but recovered. All 12 made it through quarantine and were very healthy. From my experience, if you're seeing this red spot in recent anthias purchases, begin treatment before the disease has a chance to advance and appear. By the time it is visible on the fish, it is already often too late.

Here's a post I made on it.

 

[Wills612]

Lukfox, what antibiotic did you use?

 

[LukFox]

Lukfox, what antibiotic did you use?

I am pretty sure it was BiFuran+.

 

[ca1ore]

I too have had all sorts of issues with anthias over the last six months. Many developing this red body ulceration and then dying. Antibiotics do seem to help, suggesting BTW that the problem is not uronema. Lost a group of Tukas and Evansi to the problem; quartet of Lyretails survived it.

Generally the larger bodied anthias are easier to keep and feed than the smaller or slim bodied ones that simply don't compete well for food. I've got bimacs and Bartletts in my large tank and they have done well in the two years I've had them. I don't find Lyretails to be aggressive outside of their species, but they can be very aggressive within it. Key, IMO, is to have enough space, plenty of other fish, and feed enough so that all members of the group get enough to eat. Otherwise the females will gradually get picked off. Buying all small females or small females and one larger male can both work.

 

[MammoDoc]

Thanks for the advice Simon. I think I have enough room, so I may try your suggestion.

 

[mattcoug]

I am pretty sure it was BiFuran+.

Furan's have anecdotally been reported to help fight uronema(which I believe is the real problem), so I wouldn't recommend treating with any other random antibiotic. IMO furan's and metronidazole are likely the only ones that will do good.


-Matt

 

[MammoDoc]

I think Matt is correct. My 1 Ignitus that made it through QT and had a hemorrhagic patch was treated with MetroPlex, along with ParaGuard. The others were also treated but may have been too seriously infected to have the drug work.

I have another question. 3 of the Anthias that I have in QT barely move. They are in the corners of the QT and aren't eating. But they have lived a week this way. No marks on them at all. 2 other Anthias in the same QT are acting normally. I've treated with kanamycin, metronidazole, paraguard and praziquantel with no change. I assume they won't make it. Any thoughts? I was hoping they would come around.

 

[ca1ore]

Furan's have anecdotally been reported to help fight uronema(which I believe is the real problem), so I wouldn't recommend treating with any other random antibiotic. IMO furan's and metronidazole are likely the only ones that will do good.


-Matt

Hmmn, that's interesting - any links? I routinely treat all incoming fish with Nitrofuracin green powder - though admittedly only as a single dose, so not enough to have any useful affect against ulcerations. May have to change my future anthias QT protocol.