Anthias has strange dent in head :(

[Angel*Fish]

He is breathing faster than normal & eating a little & not swimming around like he usually does

I just cleaned the glass, I'm almost wondering if this wasn't caused by ramming it, but his mouth area looks undamaged - I don't see a fallen rock anywhere...

My daughter has the camera so I tried to Photoshop what it looks like Anyway this isn't perfect but here it is - mainly gives you an idea of where the dent is

Here's the "before" photo

Anybody had this happen? Thoughts? For the last 24 hrs he shows no sign of decline, but no sign of improvement either.

 

[leebca]

Nice fish. Good photo. Dent isn't shown very well.

Like you suspect, I too suspect an injury, even if you have no evidence for it. On the other hand, you have not given us much information. Want to provide more info?

How old is your tank? When did it originally cycle?
What the tank volume and size.
List all specimens & sizes in the tank (fish, inverts, corals, clams, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.).
If you have a refugium and/or sump, what is living in it?
Do you use a quarantine tank and procedure?
Foods you use and feeding schedules.
How long have you had this fish?
Do you use any vitamins? Fat additives? Any elemental or other additives? Please list all.
Water changes (how much and how often).
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 6 weeks.
Maintenance schedule. What have you done lately other than clean the glass?

 

[Angel*Fish]

This fish has been feeding well - very well though I only feed twice a day, I feed a combo of mysis, gut loaded brine, frozen cyclopeeze, sometimes frozen rotifers & a general variety of other frozen foods. The just hatched orange colored artemia is twice a day & the anthias eat on them for about an hour at each feeding.

I've had the bicolor for 6 mo. or so - he is king of the tank & if he dies none of the other fish will show up for the funeral . He keeps the tukas, the sunburst anthias and the blackcap basslet (I think he thinks it's a purple anthias male ) all confined to one side of the tank

I only have 1 bicolor the other anthias seem fine including the tukas. I'm sure he's not underfed volumewise - he is one fat fish.
He was very robust prior to this.

How old is your tank? When did it originally cycle? A couple of years
What the tank volume and size. 100g
If you have a refugium and/or sump, what is living in it? Macroalgae, sponges etc. Small Singapore angel
Do you use a quarantine tank and procedure? Not usually
Do you use any vitamins? Fat additives? Any elemental or other additives? Please list all. Dissolved kalk drip
How long have you had this fish? About 6 mo.
Water changes (how much and how often). 25-30g weekly
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 6 weeks. I tried to mate my Singapore angel (didn't work)

Whew!
This morning he came out to feed some & to bully the blackcap into his cave - but still his breathing is wrong & after breakfast he went back to rest
I think his head is actually swollen behind the dent & it may be my imagination - but the dent looked looked slightly better this AM

 

[leebca]

Based upon the information you provided:

1) Use vitamins and fats routinely;
2) Mix beta glucan in with the food while it's healing
(info on the above can be gotten from:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228 )
3) Watch for any downward turn;
4) I'd further recommend having a hospital tank/setup available. Since they are similar to a QT, this is good advice for that:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm

As strange as this may sound. . .A fish that bullies all other fish is under a considerable amount of stress. Not good for it and not good for the others. You should consider a change in inhabitants.

If the dent looks worse, I would move the fish to a hospital tank for some R&R if not an actual treatment.

 

[Angel*Fish]

You should consider a change in inhabitants.

Yes, I'll do this - I misunderstood something I read about the subgenus bicolor anthias are in - bicolors are not mild mannered at all & this male is a terror plus I think he ate 2 yellow clown gobies - in spite of the nasty taste they are said to have - He is not working out in my otherwise peaceful tank

I'll get some Beta glucan & vitamins & hunt harder for some Selcon - I've been out of it for months and the LFS keeps saying it will get some in...

Thanks for that great link to your nutrition thread - very helpful info - I try to provide as much live algae & sponges for my fish but I'm sure it's not enough.

leebca, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to ask you another question:

Do you have any advice for feeding my tukas?
I've had them almost 3 mo. now & though they will nibble a small amount of mysis, it's not enough to stay alive on. They rely heavily on just hatched artemia. I often put rotifers & frozen cyclopeeze in with the artemia so they'll gobble up some with the BBS.
They show no signs that they want to eat any thing else, but I wonder how nutritious and/or balanced this is for them. I'm wondering if I should grow out the artemia longer and load them with something or if I should culture some other live foods. Any suggestions or ideas would be very appreciated.

 

[leebca]

You don't say what kind of tuka you have. Some are deep water fish that basically don't like a lot of light. All are carnivores that favor zooplankton and pods. Lighting and other conditions may have an affect on their willingness to adapt to a new food.

The longer you continue to provide one or two foods, the more likely they will refuse other foods, to their own eventual demise. You can do what you suggested, but all it will prove is that fish can train humans.

In 3 months, they are pretty much set in their ways. To wean them away from their regular foods, will be challenging.

I don't know much about what you are feeding them, but it must be fresh and of the size right for them. Try Mini-Mysis from H2O Life. Try mysis from other packagers/companies. Same with all frozen foods.

To move away from living brine shrimp, try to offer some frozen baby brine shrimp. If you can get them to eat the frozen baby brine shrimp that is available, you can then have a chance to expand their diet.

The road is bumpy and time consuming. Once eating frozen baby brine, you will thaw some, add to a gelatin and make your own gelatin-bound BBS food. If they eat that, now they are used to the gelatin and the binding of their frozen BBS. Three important 'break throughs.'

With this as a base, reduce the amount of BBS in your mix slowly adding other foods to the mix. Slowly may need to be an agonizing 5% every 5 days! Keep going until they eat what you want them to.

Alternatively or in addition to the above plan:
You don't mention if there are other fish in with them. If not, you need to add some dither fish.

Not to be discouraging, but after all your efforts, after a 3-month continuous diet of anything, changing some fish to a new diet has less than 1 in 3 chance of success.

 

[Angel*Fish]

You don't say what kind of tuka you have. Some are deep water fish that basically don't like a lot of light.
I don't know how you tell if they were collected from deep water or not. FWIW here's a photo. They've fattened up some since this photo.

Try Mini-Mysis from H2O Life. Try mysis from other packagers/companies. Same with all frozen foods.
I've been feeding a variety of brands of mysis including H2O - Do they have a product called "mini mysis" or are you referring to the fact that they are smaller than other brands?

To move away from living brine shrimp, try to offer some frozen baby brine shrimp. If you can get them to eat the frozen baby brine shrimp that is available, you can then have a chance to expand their diet. I have fed the frozen before putting in the live wo/ much success- will try harder

I don't know much about what you are feeding them, but it must be fresh and of the size right for them It's very fresh I raise them myself & I don't really mind doing it , I'm just not sure If it is a healthy food. I put the brine shrimp eggs in the water & feed once after 24 hours & again after 32 hours. (Then start over again- I keep 2 vats going at once) They have shown very little interest in adult live brine

Alternatively or in addition to the above plan:You don't mention if there are other fish in with them. If not, you need to add some dither fish They're in the main tank - for dither fish they have 4 threadfin cardinals, 1 bossy bicolor anthias & I bought them 3 smaller dispar anthias so they'd have someone to boss around. The dispars are wonderful little fish BTW. So far my favorite anthias.

Miraculously the bicolor looks almost normal this morning dentwise that is. However he still has his dorsal fin down & is breathing fast/heavy. He's a little more active also.

Thank you so much for your in depth replies.

 

[leebca]

Marie,

Most don't like my 'long-winded' replies, from what I gather. Nice to hear of a differing opinion!

If I miss a ? be sure to ask again. . .

Look closely at the H2O Mysis. Don't you see the word "Mini" written vertically just before the word "Mysis?" They have packaged smaller mysis on the average. Some are large, but the average is smaller than other brands.

If still no success with frozen BBS, then make your own. Take living BBS, freeze them overnight, thaw and try feeding them. See what they think of that.

I was more thinking of the mysis and Cyclop-eze than the living BBS. I assumed you were hatching the BBS yourself. BBS are not good enough for a continued diet. Better than adult brine shrimp and about the same as gut loaded brine shrimp, but like you suspect, not something to live on.

Try other small foods (oyster eggs, small frozen plankton, chopped frozen plankton, freeze-dried copepods, etc.)

The dither fish need to:
1) Not be shy;
2) Be calm (not skiddish);
3) Eat well and most everything; and
4) Not hold back or out-compete the fish you want to get eating.

Good luck!

 

[Angel*Fish]

Thanks again - btw I can't imagine why anyone would not appreciate detailed info

OK -- You're going to think I'm making this up... the dent between & just above the bicolor's eyes has pretty much gone back to normal, as also has the swelling just behind that area -- the picture was a pretty good representation of it actually (except for the unrealistic blurry edges)

This morning his breathing was much better, he was out swimming around in an almost back-to-normal manner... But now... he is sunken behind the head laterally, I'd say all along the area just above the lateral line

I'm still Photoshopping - sorry no actual photo- but I tried to shadow the area & it looks a lot like this:

Do you have any idea what this could be?

FWIW - I think maybe my alk. has been low - I think my test may be bad, but my pH has been stable - I'm getting a new test kit this afternoon though

 

[leebca]

Alk doesn't much matter to fishes. pH would.

Injury that has left a permanent scar? That's my guess without firsthand info and inspection.

Keep watch that something in the tank isn't 'attacking' it or otherwise causes it harm (some corals, anemones, inverts, even fishes, etc. can sting or defend against fishes).

 

[Angel*Fish]

Well, I've never seen a fish so sick get so much better. He is almost back to normal now Thanks for all your help!