Anthias Sudden Death?

[seanb]

Ok, its taken me two weeks since this happened to even visit RC let alone talk about it, but I am starting to emerge from my funk and now I am looking for answers.
Over a month ago, I ordered 5 lyretail anthias through a reputable online store. They arrived on time and from what I can tell, in good condition. At first they didn't eat well, but after a few days it got better and after 3.5 weeks in quarantine they were dashing to the front of the tank whenever I approached and were eating well on mysis and some were starting to eat some flake. The next day one was acting lethargic and sitting on the bottom. The next morning it was dead. I double checked water quality and did a fifty percent water change with water from my display. Within 36 hrs the other four exhibited the same lethargic, rapid breathing, sit on the bottom symptoms and then they were dead. Fine for 25 days and then all 5 die within 36 hrs. All water parameters checked out, salinity 1.025; no measurable nitrate, nitrite, or ammonia; temp 78 F; pH 8.2.
There were no outward signs of disease ( ich, velvet, or anything else I could see). I am looking for any ideas on what happened and what I can do to prevent this from ever happening again. The only good thing is that this all happened in quarantine and not in my display. What do you think happened?

 

[PokerReefer]

At least yours lasted that long. I had 3 in my qt and they ate the instant I put them in. I came home from work day 2 and all 3 were dead. I don't know why either. Sorry for the loss.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Sure sounds like something toxic got in. How was ammonia before the WC and how were you controlling it? Add any meds? Just curious: do you know the orogin of the fish/ Did they seem to have a brighter color than you would expect?

 

[sucker_fish]

I am in no way saying this is what happened but its possible they may have been collected using cyanide which may take a while to kill them but the symptoms sound like its a possibility. Again, you said you got them from a reputable fish store so I hope this is not the case.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I am in no way saying this is what happened but its possible they may have been collected using cyanide which may take a while to kill them but the symptoms sound like its a possibility. Again, you said you got them from a reputable fish store so I hope this is not the case.

Yeah; that was the reason my my origin and coloration questions. The time-line seems to fit cyanide. But i'm sure not going to say this is the cause. Even the very best dealers cannot prevent 100% of cyanide collected fish from getting through. sadly, it seems to be increasing; especially in fish from the ''Indo-Pacific", Indonesia, or the Philippians. Of course, most fish fro these areas and good dealers are fine.

 

[coralnut99]

Bought 3 pyramid butterflies and they went in much the same fashion. Absolutely, and I mean NO external issues on these fish. All three ate with the usual flair and were gone within 24 hours of their last meal. All other fish in the tank are still AOK. I'm betting cyanide as well. I've never seen fish look this good at death's doorstep.

 

[davocean]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understand is that cyanide affects the fish's digestive system, and one of the telltale signs is that they never seem to eat, or at least that is what I have read on here somewhere.

 

[coralnut99]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understand is that cyanide affects the fish's digestive system, and one of the telltale signs is that they never seem to eat, or at least that is what I have read on here somewhere.

Specifically the liver and central nervous system.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understand is that cyanide affects the fish's digestive system, and one of the telltale signs is that they never seem to eat, or at least that is what I have read on here somewhere.

I think this is usually the case. But, depending on the level of cyanide, fish may eat for a short time, then suddenly die. (Bob Fenner) I'm sure not saying that's the cause of these fish dying; there really is no way of knowing for sure----just something to consider. Lyretails are widely distributed and if they came from Fiji, the Maldives, etc., I wouldn't consider cyanide. If the origin just said "Indian Ocean" or "Indo-pacific"; I would.

 

[coralnut99]

I think this is usually the case. But, depending on the level of cyanide, fish may eat for a short time, then suddenly die. (Bob Fenner) I'm sure not saying that's the cause of these fish dying; there really is no way of knowing for sure----just something to consider. Lyretails are widely distributed and if they came from Fiji, the Maldives, etc., I wouldn't consider cyanide. If the origin just said "Indian Ocean" or "Indo-pacific"; I would.

A much more thorough response than mine for sure.
But I'll just throw in my general skepticism about how much any given retailer knows about the origin of specific batches of fish. While some industries bear a truly laborious task of documenting every step of their distribution/supply chain so they can figure out where something goes wrong, I just don't think anything the wholesale marine tropical fish trade has in place is all that reliable.

 

[MrTuskfish]

A much more thorough response than mine for sure.
But I'll just throw in my general skepticism about how much any given retailer knows about the origin of specific batches of fish. While some industries bear a truly laborious task of documenting every step of their distribution/supply chain so they can figure out where something goes wrong, I just don't think anything the wholesale marine tropical fish trade has in place is all that reliable.

I agree, and trying to police countless collectors (who may get a nickle for an Anthias), a zillion tiny islands, 3rd world transportation, etc, would be impossible. The health of new fish sure has come a long, long way during my time in the hobby, though.