Any potential faults to the tank transfer method?

[Spar]

Is the Tank Transfer method equally as effective as Hypo or Copper? Or is there a higher rate of failure involved with it? I assume this only gets rid of Ich and not other parasites?

What are the downfalls to this method?

I have been trying Hypo and Copper, and just keep getting too many deaths. I have the space for a Tank Transfer setup, so figure if it is a solid approach may as well do it.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I think TT is as effective as copper (and I've been a big copper fan for years) and significantly more effective that hypo. It may just be me, but there are so many reported failures, and room for error, that I don't consider it a cure any more. Just my opinion. I think chloroquinine phosphate is a great ich cure too. Its pricey and hard to find, for now anyhow.
A downside to TT is its more work and can't really be done with a whole tankful of fish. I think its as idiot-proof as any method I know of. There's a good sticky about TT at the top of the disease forum.

Are you seeing the deaths with new fish in your QT or with established fish?

 

[sleepydoc]

The two significant (potential) downsides to TT that I can think of are:

1. 'stress' and potential injury to the fish from moving them. There will be stress no matter how you cut it, and a couple of extra transfers, done correctly should not stress or injure them, IMHO.

2. The potential for ammonia build up. Again, minimal risk, since the fish are only in the holding tank 3 days at a time. If you're really concerned you can add some prime or similar additive after the first day or two, but I've never heard of this being an issue. Now if you're trying to use TT for 20 fish in a 5 gallon bucket, you might run into more problems!

Copper is also potentially toxic to fish, so pick your poison - literally!

 

[Spar]

Great feedback. I will check out the sticky. Thinking of using 29G tanks for it, and I can use water from my main tank to at least keep cycled water in each water change.

Again, will check the Sticky, but in case not answered there, is it possible to combine PraziPro and TT to get the full advantage of PraziPro as well?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Great feedback. I will check out the sticky. Thinking of using 29G tanks for it, and I can use water from my main tank to at least keep cycled water in each water change.

Again, will check the Sticky, but in case not answered there, is it possible to combine PraziPro and TT to get the full advantage of PraziPro as well?

Water doesn't cycle, the tank does. The friendly bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite, then nitrate, live in the LR, filter media and substrate. Your tank water will do no more to control ammonia than your tap water. You can use your DT water, but will have to closely monitor ammonia with TT. I like to use DT water in my QT because it has the same parameters for the fish and the DT gets a water change at the same time. But, the "cycle" is not a fringe benefit. Unless you have a large fish load, 29 gal TT tanks are unlikely to develop ammonia problems in the short time before the water is changed. Always have an ammonia neutralizer handy, though. Prime, Ammo-Lock, etc.

I can't remember the exposure needed for Prazi-Pro to work, I think its 5 days and you need 2 doses, 10 days apart. I would wait before you use it. PP is a very safe med, the only med I'd ever use in a reef tank. It will kill tube worms, though.

 

[sleepydoc]

+1

For TT to work, you need to effectively sanitize the tank between occupancies (i.e. clean and dry it.) Any procedure that kills the ich parasites will also kill the nitrifying bacteria.

Depending on how many fish you have, I would consider a somewhat smaller tank or container simply because 29 gallons gets to be a bit much to change every 3 days. It gets a little pricey, too - I calculated $0.50/gallon to make salt water for my tank, meaning the salt water casts for a 29 gallon tank would be $60

 

[jamesbaur13]

+1
I calculated $0.50/gallon to make salt water for my tank, meaning the salt water casts for a 29 gallon tank would be $60

Wouldn't that be $14.50 and not $60?

 

[jjk_reef00]

Wouldn't that be $14.50 and not $60?

Multipy by 4 tank transfers.

I would observe your fish for at least 4 weeks after TT because I somehow had ich slip by. It probably was operator error but I'm not sure what went wrong. I prefer cupramine because I know (with a very large certainty) that my medication levels will kill ich.

 

[EddieJ]

The two significant (potential) downsides to TT that I can think of are:

1. 'stress' and potential injury to the fish from moving them. There will be stress no matter how you cut it, and a couple of extra transfers, done correctly should not stress or injure them, IMHO.

2. The potential for ammonia build up. Again, minimal risk, since the fish are only in the holding tank 3 days at a time. If you're really concerned you can add some prime or similar additive after the first day or two, but I've never heard of this being an issue. Now if you're trying to use TT for 20 fish in a 5 gallon bucket, you might run into more problems!

Copper is also potentially toxic to fish, so pick your poison - literally!

Take your time when catching the fish, don't chase him all over the tank and get him all worked up. Very slowly work him to a side or corner with your net/container to capture him. Also make sure to drain the water down to a level where the fish is just under water. Now I know that's not possible most times when you are getting him out of your DT, I am mainly speaking about fish that are already in the transfer tank. I agree with the statement that the word Stress is way over used in this hobby! Stress is living on the reef with predators around every turn... I have done many tank transfers and the fish don't seem to mind it one bit. For example, I just picked up a Magnificent Foxface, after his first transfer yesterday he was eating 2 minutes after the transfer in his full color. It believe it's all in the capture.

As for the ammonia, I use Am Guard by SeaChem. I just dose this each morning and I never see a hint of ammonia during the 3 days.

Yes, there is a cost for salt during this process, but I do run the transfer tanks at a much lower SG of 1.016-1.018 which saves a bit on salt. The lower SG is much easier on the fish as they spend much less energy on osmoregulation. You can take a fish out of 1.0265 and drop him in 1.016 with no problem at all. Just make sure the temp is matched. You do need to slowly raise the SG when prepping the fish to go into your DT. Going up in SG quickly is very stressful to the fish.

 

[Spar]

Do you all usually do the standard 20g long tanks, or the 20g high/tall? Or does it really not matter all that much?

High = 24" x 12" x 16"
Long = 30" x 12" x 12"

 

[EddieJ]

I use 20 gallon long for larger fish, and 10 gallon for small fish.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Even "Brute" totes can be used in a pinch.

 

[Spar]

The one thing that has confused me, is what keeps the trophonts that have fallen from the fish from coming over to the new tank via the net/tupperware used when transferring the fish? Is this just not something realistic to happen?

 

[sleepydoc]

Re: Tanks, I would get the 20 long - greater surface area for O2 exchange, and most fish would rather have horizontal room to swim rather than vertical.

After the trophonts leave the fish, they attach to a surface and encyst and take at least 3-4 days to become infective theronts. By this point, you've moved the fish out and sanitized the container, killing any protomonts/tomonts/theronts that are left.

 

[Spar]

Makes sense thanks! This is why you can bring a little water over with the fish when using tupperware instead of nets?

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes. Also why you do 4 transfers instead of one.

When transferring fish, I usually use a small tupperware dish (actually I think it's one that had lunch meat from Target!), gently drain most of the water and transfer. The amount of water that makes it over is less than 100 ml. You can also use a plastic bag. Either way is very gentle on the fish and shouldn't cause any trauma at all.

 

[Spar]

Perfect. Thanks all!

 

[tmz]

A few things:

water; tank water won't help any biofilter. It will bring in organics that can decay without the bioilter to handle them. I use newly mixed saltwater aerated overnight.

Ten gallon tanks meet the need for transfer method for most fish but not very many at once. Never saw ammonia but keep ammolock handy and sometimes with a larger fish I dose it after 48 hours just in case.

I also keep a 29 gallon cycled tank going for post transfer treatement observations. Tranfer is only for ich.

It's possible to pick up a trophont headed for th bottm but not likely . Less so with a net than a cup. In any case ,it's not likely to have time hatch in the new transfer tank.

Gentle capture is easier if you remove all the equipment and hiding places and drain down the tank to a few inches before attempting to catch the
fish.

I agree tha hyposalinity is a sometimes effective; sometimes not thing. Some Ich strains can mutate to hyposaline conditions in one generation.

 

[MellowReefer]

I am getting ready to try this as I have yet another fish in QT that had a bad reaction to cupramine. Going to use two 10 gallon tanks. Just wondering if it would be okay if I use a small HOB filter in the 10 gallon tank and run GAC in there? After the 3 days, I would completely wash and dry the HOB and discard the GAC. This would make me feel better that there's no chance of ammonia build up, since the filter is running new GAC. Good idea? Also I figured this way I could use DT water since any organics would be cleared by the GAC right? (DT is ich-free if course)

 

[EddieJ]

I am getting ready to try this as I have yet another fish in QT that had a bad reaction to cupramine. Going to use two 10 gallon tanks. Just wondering if it would be okay if I use a small HOB filter in the 10 gallon tank and run GAC in there? After the 3 days, I would completely wash and dry the HOB and discard the GAC. This would make me feel better that there's no chance of ammonia build up, since the filter is running new GAC. Good idea? Also I figured this way I could use DT water since any organics would be cleared by the GAC right? (DT is ich-free if course)

No need at all. Pick up some Am Guard or Prime and dose day two if you are worried. I have never seen the slightest amount of ammonia and I feed the fish well during the 3 days. Don't over think it, all I use is a air stone and heater.. The KISS method.