MellowReefer
New member
An air stone is enough to circulate water in a 10 gallon tank? What size air pump would you recommend?
I would like to use DT water, that way the DT gets water changed at the same time. Is that really a bad idea?
Any potential faults to the tank transfer method?
- Thread starter Spar
- Start date
An air stone is enough to circulate water in a 10 gallon tank? What size air pump would you recommend?
I would like to use DT water, that way the DT gets water changed at the same time. Is that really a bad idea?
MellowReefer
New member
Thanks. I ordered two sponge filters and was surprised at how cheap they were. $6 for the filters and $7 for one air pump. And I ordered extra sponges for $3 each so I have 5. That way I can seed the sponges in my DT for a week and use a new one each time. Then at the end I'll disinfect with bleach water and dry out for next time. I will take everyone's advice and use new water.
Can you please confirm my plan to make sure I understand? This fish is in my QT tank and has been for 3 weeks and already treated with prazi. No signs of any disease so I want to move to my DT right after this.
All done at 7:00am:
Day 1: move fish into tank 1
Day 4: move to tank 2
Day 7: move to tank 1
Day 10: move to tank 2
Day 13: put fish in DT
Can you please confirm my plan to make sure I understand? This fish is in my QT tank and has been for 3 weeks and already treated with prazi. No signs of any disease so I want to move to my DT right after this.
All done at 7:00am:
Day 1: move fish into tank 1
Day 4: move to tank 2
Day 7: move to tank 1
Day 10: move to tank 2
Day 13: put fish in DT
Spar
New member
The point people seem to be raising about using DT water is that it will already contain a lot more organics than fresh mixed water would, and therefore increases your chances of experiencing Ammonia buildup during the 3 days. If you use DT water, then just make part of your routine to put in de-ammonia solution (prime, amquel, etc). I plan to use DT water for mine.
I decided to not use an airstone. Just a Maxijet 600 Pro (the 170gph one) and will point it at the surface. I figure this is good enough for a 10g or 20g depending on which I use for different sized fish. I would always worry about the airstones being enough personally.
EddieJ
Premium Member
All you are looking to accomplish is breaking the tension on the surface to promote gas exchange. An airstone accomplishes this and moves a little bit of water around. The one thing is that the airstone is a little messy, but I like the simplicity of it. I only used an airstone on 40 gallon totes when I had all my fish going thru tank transfer due to one lapse of judgement. This had 2 fairly large tangs and 2 triggers along with some cromis and a wrasse. Powerhead works well too, just make sure it's pointed at the surface as well.
Mellowreefer,
Your plan sounds solid.
Mellowreefer,
Your plan sounds solid.
MellowReefer
New member
Thanks for the advice everyone, and the OP for letting me share this thread 
I am just so scared of leaving a fish in a tank with no biofilter. Worried I will come home from work and find my beautiful wrasse dead. And with using Prime or whatever you can't even test the water and know for sure that it worked, you just have to trust it. I am going to use 5 sponge filters that were seeded in my sump for a few days beforehand. I know it might not do much but it will make me feel better.
I am just so scared of leaving a fish in a tank with no biofilter. Worried I will come home from work and find my beautiful wrasse dead. And with using Prime or whatever you can't even test the water and know for sure that it worked, you just have to trust it. I am going to use 5 sponge filters that were seeded in my sump for a few days beforehand. I know it might not do much but it will make me feel better.
sleepydoc
Team RC
If it makes you feel better, fine, but a few days is not enough to colonize a sponge filter.
If you're really paranoid, I would test the water after day 2. If there's any hint of ammonia, dose with prime.if not, test again on day 3. If the tank is reasonably sized and you're feeding reasonable amounts, you'll probably find nothing.
If you're really paranoid, I would test the water after day 2. If there's any hint of ammonia, dose with prime.if not, test again on day 3. If the tank is reasonably sized and you're feeding reasonable amounts, you'll probably find nothing.
To be clear, I use a bubble up sponge filter , not for biofiltration but for the gentle intake flow .Food also gathers on it which some fish(mandarins for example ) like to pick at. I think it takes a bit longer than a few days for significant biofiltration to occur but it also takes some time for food to create ammonia. This one reason I prefer new water vs tank water. By all means if you have a preseeded sponge from disease free water seeded for a week or two use it but it's not needed for a 3 day stay in new water,ime.
MellowReefer
New member
I will get the Seachem ammonia test - I didn't realize they had one to test free ammonia, so thanks for bringing that up, that will ease my mind if I do have to use Prime (or maybe I'll go with the AmGuard instead).
MellowReefer
New member
MellowReefer
New member
Just had another thought, you guys usually do no acclimation with each transfer? Wouldn't the pH be much higher with new water than the 3-day old water? As long as you match temp and salinity it's fine?
I have four new purchases a week ago in qt and flame angel developed ick first. Didn't see it at first due to subdued lighting but the flame started to hide and the other 3 fish are banggai cardinals. The cardinals are not as affected as the angel. The angel was scratching and it had inflammed its cheek area. I could see the scales on the cheek stand out. Right away ,I started the hypo and now going on day two bringing the sg down to 1.009. The flame isn't as scratching but still hides. The next step I was considering is to do both the hypo and tank transfer method. Does anyone see a problem with that? Would I put too much stress on the flame? Or does it sound ridiculous to do both. I am going to h depot and get some pvc so as to keep the tanks identical.
Increased CO2 in the water would drive lower pH which btw would lower ammonia toxicity . CO2 will come from fish respiration and bacterial activity involved in the breakdown of decaying material or ammonia ; not much in 72 hours of the later 2 in new water aged for several hours before use . The transfer tank ,just like any other tank with surface agitation ,will exchange gases with the air around it ; CO2 will equilibriate. So, no there is no reason pH will be significantly different after 3 days .
This thread of mine has more detail on the methods I personally use for acclimation , tank transfer, observation and treatments:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation+and+quarantine
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Lower sg as long as it's l.009 or higher won't stress the fish nor harm it in the short run.
The fish has an internal salinity of 1.008 which it must maintain . Lower sg allows more O2 in the water, an overall plus. It also makes it easier for the fish ; it doesn't need to drink as much or process out as much concentrated salts to maintain homeostasis. So, there is no plausible reson to think it causes more stress in a short term exposure . Longer term ,lower sg potetnially has some effect in causing atrophy to some internal organs like the kidneys.
MellowReefer
New member
MellowReefer
New member
Tom, I hope you don't mind one more question, sort of off topic, and I hope it's not a stupid one 
I am definitely doing tank transfer for my sensitive wrasse, but thinking about future fish QT and using Cupramine again like I've been doing with other fish.
In theory, if you treated a fish in QT with Cupramine for 7 days (counting after you got up to the right dose) couldn't you move that fish into your DT knowing that it would not carry ich? Because the theronts feed on the fish for about 3 to 7 days. Then they encyst on the hard surfaces in the tank. Then as long as there is copper in the tank they will die when they try to get back on the fish and won't even make it to the fish. So essentially after 7 days there should be no way for the ich to re-infect the fish as long as you have the right level of copper in the tank. Leaving the copper in the tank for 4 weeks or more is really about making the tank free of ich. If you took out the fish after a week and then left the tank empty of fish for 3 weeks (or more) the tank would be free of ich too but you'd need to have an empty QT for that period (ghost feed to maintain biofilter).
Am I missing something? To summarize my plan: I would observe the fish for two weeks and use Prazipro, then slowly ramp up the copper, then do 7 days of .4 copper, the move the fish to DT so it doesn't get more copper exposure than necessary, and leave the copper in the QT for another 3-4 weeks, then remove the copper for the next fish.
I am definitely doing tank transfer for my sensitive wrasse, but thinking about future fish QT and using Cupramine again like I've been doing with other fish. In theory, if you treated a fish in QT with Cupramine for 7 days (counting after you got up to the right dose) couldn't you move that fish into your DT knowing that it would not carry ich? Because the theronts feed on the fish for about 3 to 7 days. Then they encyst on the hard surfaces in the tank. Then as long as there is copper in the tank they will die when they try to get back on the fish and won't even make it to the fish. So essentially after 7 days there should be no way for the ich to re-infect the fish as long as you have the right level of copper in the tank. Leaving the copper in the tank for 4 weeks or more is really about making the tank free of ich. If you took out the fish after a week and then left the tank empty of fish for 3 weeks (or more) the tank would be free of ich too but you'd need to have an empty QT for that period (ghost feed to maintain biofilter).
Am I missing something? To summarize my plan: I would observe the fish for two weeks and use Prazipro, then slowly ramp up the copper, then do 7 days of .4 copper, the move the fish to DT so it doesn't get more copper exposure than necessary, and leave the copper in the QT for another 3-4 weeks, then remove the copper for the next fish.
I haven't used copper in a while. it was my preferred prventative teatment until I tried TT. As I recall manufacturer's recommend around 14 days of treament . 3 to 7 days might not always be right depending on the strain and tank conditions. temperature ,sg and so on. So I think the 14 provides a margin. In any case , I follow the product recommendations for whatever med I use most of the time. Other's may have a a good reason to use it longer. Copper won't kill the cysts ;it's only effective on the free swimming stages.
