Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I doubt it, but I figured that I'd ask. What the hey!
anybody in URS remove any DSB?
- Thread starter Gary Majchrzak
- Start date
drtango
New member
I sucked out about 1-2 inches of mine, and am actively considering taking the huge pain-in-the-rear step of going all the way.
I'm moving towards joining the camp that believes DSB's work great until they're full--which takes from 2 to 6 years depending on bioload, feeding etc. Mine's full. I hardly feed anymore, my skimmer pulls horrible stuff out constantly, acro growth has slowed to a crawl, and I'm always battling some varient of slow white band disease. The first few years of my current tank was entirely different--growth was explosive. I think it's got to be various bad things being released from the bed, most probably phosphates, organic phosphates and perhaps metals.
My tank has perked up a little with the removal of some super nasty DSB, I've also begun using Ozone again in my skimmmer which seemed to help alot. If I ever do another tank, I'm going with a cutting board bottom, possibly with some rubble epoxied in there for aesthetics, with lots of algae in the refugium along with live rock and good skimming.
Just my 2 cents--but the nicest tank I've ever seen with my own eyes does NOT have a DSB (Dave P).
John T.
I'm moving towards joining the camp that believes DSB's work great until they're full--which takes from 2 to 6 years depending on bioload, feeding etc. Mine's full. I hardly feed anymore, my skimmer pulls horrible stuff out constantly, acro growth has slowed to a crawl, and I'm always battling some varient of slow white band disease. The first few years of my current tank was entirely different--growth was explosive. I think it's got to be various bad things being released from the bed, most probably phosphates, organic phosphates and perhaps metals.
My tank has perked up a little with the removal of some super nasty DSB, I've also begun using Ozone again in my skimmmer which seemed to help alot. If I ever do another tank, I'm going with a cutting board bottom, possibly with some rubble epoxied in there for aesthetics, with lots of algae in the refugium along with live rock and good skimming.
Just my 2 cents--but the nicest tank I've ever seen with my own eyes does NOT have a DSB (Dave P).
John T.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I'm going to do something, ri. Not sure to what extent. I do know from personal past experiences that messing with a DSB can be lethal. I'm not planning on removing all livestock from my aquarium, nor removing all sand at once. It will be removed/replaced in small sections at a time. And since I have a lot of critters that depend on a sandbed for their well being, I won't be entirely getting rid of my sandbed.
I was wondering if someone used a specific tool to vacuum their southdown- what works best. {I'm definitely not using a scoop as suggested in some of the DSB removal threads!} Somebody might have a good idea for a tool they use for routine maintenance purposes that I can put together...
or recommend a certain size of commercially manufactured 'Python' type device to clean up 'Southdown' type DSB's.
I was wondering if someone used a specific tool to vacuum their southdown- what works best. {I'm definitely not using a scoop as suggested in some of the DSB removal threads!} Somebody might have a good idea for a tool they use for routine maintenance purposes that I can put together...
or recommend a certain size of commercially manufactured 'Python' type device to clean up 'Southdown' type DSB's.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
John- I am beyond moving into that camp. I have absolutely no doubts that DSB's work great until "full". Now I'd like to figure out the best way to replace a "full" sandbed, preferably without having to remove all livestock.drtango said:
Stoli
Premium Member
Gary:
While I have never removed a sandbed, I have replaced portions using a 3/4" diameter hose. The suction is sufficient to remove substantial amounts of sand and you get the benefit of a water change to boot.
Now, to really stir the pot, I tend to agree that 'sandbeds' can get full. I believe, although I have no empirical data, that a plenum solves this problem by permitting water to pass through the entire bed. Unfortunately, my tank was not up long enough to prove the point one way or another.
In the new setup, there will be a two inch 'in tank' sandbed and a full Jaubert plenum in the sump. Since the sump will be my current 90 gallon tank, the plenum is already built. I'm hoping to install some type of system that will allow me to test the water in the plenum area (hopefully more than one location) to determine what, if anything is in there. But, that's for a future thread.
While I have never removed a sandbed, I have replaced portions using a 3/4" diameter hose. The suction is sufficient to remove substantial amounts of sand and you get the benefit of a water change to boot.
Now, to really stir the pot, I tend to agree that 'sandbeds' can get full. I believe, although I have no empirical data, that a plenum solves this problem by permitting water to pass through the entire bed. Unfortunately, my tank was not up long enough to prove the point one way or another.
In the new setup, there will be a two inch 'in tank' sandbed and a full Jaubert plenum in the sump. Since the sump will be my current 90 gallon tank, the plenum is already built. I'm hoping to install some type of system that will allow me to test the water in the plenum area (hopefully more than one location) to determine what, if anything is in there. But, that's for a future thread.
drtango
New member
Gary-
I used a cheap-o gravel vac---about a 3 inch diameter plastic tube to 3/4 inch hose. You get plenty of suction to pull out the southdown. I did about a 6 by 6 inch section at a time, no ill effects noted, in fact the corals looked like they were feeding when I finished. All of the nasties end up in the bucket, just dont pull the vac out of the gravel until you've broken or pinched off the siphon.
Stoli-
Sounds like a perfect plan. One of the smarter posts I've read lately was a guy who drilled a bulkhead on the bottom of the tank, below the plenum, to do water changes. In that sort of a setup, suppose the whole "plenum" concept goes out the window, but the idea of cleaning your DSB from the top down seems to make alot of sense.
John
I used a cheap-o gravel vac---about a 3 inch diameter plastic tube to 3/4 inch hose. You get plenty of suction to pull out the southdown. I did about a 6 by 6 inch section at a time, no ill effects noted, in fact the corals looked like they were feeding when I finished. All of the nasties end up in the bucket, just dont pull the vac out of the gravel until you've broken or pinched off the siphon.
Stoli-
Sounds like a perfect plan. One of the smarter posts I've read lately was a guy who drilled a bulkhead on the bottom of the tank, below the plenum, to do water changes. In that sort of a setup, suppose the whole "plenum" concept goes out the window, but the idea of cleaning your DSB from the top down seems to make alot of sense.
John
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
Thanks for the input {and offer zack136}, guys. OK- It's begun. I found a 1/2" hose laying around and siphoned a 5 gallon bucket full of muddy sludge water out. I can see that a larger intake on my homemade vac will work even better. I need 8' of hose for this device to reach over the edge of my aquarium and reach the bottoms of both bucket and tank. You're right John- corals appear to feed during and after the sandbed cleaning.
Sheesh. I thought my days of 'schlepping' buckets of water were over.
Sheesh. I thought my days of 'schlepping' buckets of water were over.
Stoli
Premium Member
Gary:
I'd definitely recommend larger diameter hose. The bigger the hose, the greater the suction and the more gravel rather than water (after all, that's your goal). I used a 3/4" ID hose. Bigger and it's hard to handle. The gravel vacs defeat what you are trying to do because they are designed to avoid the removal of the substrate. JMHO
I'd definitely recommend larger diameter hose. The bigger the hose, the greater the suction and the more gravel rather than water (after all, that's your goal). I used a 3/4" ID hose. Bigger and it's hard to handle. The gravel vacs defeat what you are trying to do because they are designed to avoid the removal of the substrate. JMHO
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I agree a bigger hose will work better, Stoli. A 3/4" hose would be max for me. I think 1" is too much- thanks for offering, Carl. A smaller diameter hose is good for a lot of reasons. An overly curious Leopard Wrasse almost got caught with my 1/2" hose today. If the hose was 1", I would have had her for sure. Today I removed 10 gallons of water and a couple of pounds of silt and substrate. Tomorrow I'll go back in for some more. It's going to be a very slow and careful ongoing process for me.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I've got a gravel-vac end attached to my hose. It picks up Southdown as well as detritus/mulm that is locked up in the DSB. It pretty much leaves CC intact. {Incidentally, the CC never worked it's wat to the surface of the Southdown as some had said it would.} The water in these buckets is not black from CC or Southdown sand, but the broken down mulm that was locked up in the sandbed.
Anyone that thinks keeping a barebottom tank requires more maintenance than a DSB is nutz.
Note that I believe both methods "work", and I've tried both. Just that barebottom is easier.
DSB's might be necessary for certain critters- and that's the only reason why I'm cleaning and replacing mine instead of taking the whole thing out permanently.
Anyone that thinks keeping a barebottom tank requires more maintenance than a DSB is nutz.
Note that I believe both methods "work", and I've tried both. Just that barebottom is easier.
DSB's might be necessary for certain critters- and that's the only reason why I'm cleaning and replacing mine instead of taking the whole thing out permanently.
I plan on removing my sandbed also. Luckily I just bought a house and decided that an upgrade in living space should be coupled with an increase in tank space. The new tank is going to be a bare bottom tank no more southdown. and anyone who could use some live sand should get ahold of me or it's going in the garbage.
Josh
Josh
captain7359
Active member
if you have any sand left i left you a pm so i can grab some when you're ready.
walter
walter
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
Attention those in need of LS: mine is being dumped daily. I'm ready when you are!
jackson6745
Yeah Yeah
Tagging along
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
jackson6745- You have a DSB and you were considering making it even deeper, right?
captain7359
Active member
will adding the ls throw my levels off in the tank. i have a fo with a shallow arragonite bed right now and just want to add some depth and sand is what i wanted to use because the mix i currently have is pretty coarse for the gobies i want to get.
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