Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[sirreal63]

There should be not question about the ability of LEDs to grow corals, that was proven with the original Solaris, the question should be about coloration of all corals we grow. As many have discovered some corals do great under LEDs while others do not. It is what I am waiting for, the day when any coral does just as well under LEDs and more traditional light sources. Qfrisco, I think the corals are looking good, if you have a red planet, pay attention to what happens to it's colors over time.

 

[qfrisco]

Qfrisco, I think the corals are looking good, if you have a red planet, pay attention to what happens to it's colors over time.

I actually do have an ORA Red Planet, it's just that the orientation of the colony to the front glass was such that it didn't lend itself to being a good macro photo - if that makes any sense at all.

Here's a Day 1 pic of the encrusted base of the Red Planet. I didn't take a Day 23 pic of it, but I'll get one when I take an updated set of pics.

 

[sirreal63]

Awesome, I have hopes that it will do well.

 

[bhazard451]

43 days is far from enough time to start raving over the ability of LED's in your aquarium.

No, but it is more informative than blind hate with no similar experience of your own to back it up.

We get it, you don't like leds, but like it or not they are a great alternative to MH/T5 already, and are rapidly getting even better. How many successful pics, tanks, and years will you need before you before you change your mind? 100? 1,000? 1 year? 5 years? Truth is, you will never be satisfied for a very long time over what you know works for you, so why not allow those people experimenting to actually do it[violation]

[flamealert]

 

[rodneyri]

I dumped LEDs (vertex illumina) and went back to T5 (ATI PM) and have recently...2 weeks ago gone back to LED with the Mitras. Time will tell how they go - ill see in six months how i feel about them, but so far no color loss from the T5. When I put up the illumina...or any LED with just white and blue alot of the corals colors dont show up, they are washed away or not reflected from that spectrum - im not seeing this with the Mitras, the colors look similar to the ATI.

 

[deepseadan]

I was just wondering, but people keep writing that leds are not full spectrum or are soon to be full spectrum. Isn't 6500k considered full spectrum? I read in one of Sanjay's articles a while back that a photon was a photon. Also I was under the impression that the main differences between the spectrum was the way it travels. The yellow light (lower kelvin like 6500) is higher par at shallower depths but losses intensity, with bluer light of the spectrum traveling far deeper. But isn't 6500k also close to sunlight and has green and red in it as well, (I thought). Back in the old days I saw plenty of beautiful acro tanks with great growth and color using just 6500k halides. Yes the color may not show without some actinics, but the corals loved them. Having said that, my old sols had 6500k leds, and blues as well. Why did my acros not do well, they had 6500k's and two different blues. They should have been loving it. But then again, the 6500k leds weren't even close to being as bright as some of the old 6500k tanks I remember (to the eye). Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on the whole spectrum topic?

 

[qfrisco]

I was just wondering, but people keep writing that leds are not full spectrum or are soon to be full spectrum. Isn't 6500k considered full spectrum? I read in one of Sanjay's articles a while back that a photon was a photon. Also I was under the impression that the main differences between the spectrum was the way it travels. The yellow light (lower kelvin like 6500) is higher par at shallower depths but losses intensity, with bluer light of the spectrum traveling far deeper. But isn't 6500k also close to sunlight and has green and red in it as well, (I thought). Back in the old days I saw plenty of beautiful acro tanks with great growth and color using just 6500k halides. Yes the color may not show without some actinics, but the corals loved them. Having said that, my old sols had 6500k leds, and blues as well. Why did my acros not do well, they had 6500k's and two different blues. They should have been loving it. But then again, the 6500k leds weren't even close to being as bright as some of the old 6500k tanks I remember (to the eye). Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on the whole spectrum topic?

I'm far from a lighting expert, but at the core of the issue is the fact that LEDs have a much more narrow spectral "spread" than MHs or T5s. If you look at the spectral plot of an MH or T5 lamp, the color temperature will correlate to a certain peak in the chart, but every other wavelength is represented to a certain degree. An LED, on the other hand, will have a sharp and narrow peak matching it's color temperature, and tails off very quickly as you go up to higher and down to lower wavelengths.

Hence, you can say that a 6500K bulb is "full spectrum" because although it has peaks in its spectral plot, it still generates light in other wavelengths, but you can't really say the same thing of an LED.

 

[KCombs]

I was just wondering, but people keep writing that leds are not full spectrum or are soon to be full spectrum. Isn't 6500k considered full spectrum? I read in one of Sanjay's articles a while back that a photon was a photon. Also I was under the impression that the main differences between the spectrum was the way it travels. The yellow light (lower kelvin like 6500) is higher par at shallower depths but losses intensity, with bluer light of the spectrum traveling far deeper. But isn't 6500k also close to sunlight and has green and red in it as well, (I thought). Back in the old days I saw plenty of beautiful acro tanks with great growth and color using just 6500k halides. Yes the color may not show without some actinics, but the corals loved them. Having said that, my old sols had 6500k leds, and blues as well. Why did my acros not do well, they had 6500k's and two different blues. They should have been loving it. But then again, the 6500k leds weren't even close to being as bright as some of the old 6500k tanks I remember (to the eye). Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on the whole spectrum topic?

I just posted this elsewhere but I had a great looking tank under 5500K...this was before all the green & blue acro crazde but it worked...

 

[Cmbtmedic1]

Good to know...I was debating on eventually switching to LEDS

 

[Cmbtmedic1]

I went to Vivid aquarium saw the 800G experiment LED vs. MH...asked the mexicans in spanish which was best...they replied MH's by far.

VIVA MH 13!!!!

 

[reeefchief]

I also just switched back from led to 2 250w radiums, I was losing color and growth with the led after a week with the halides back on I notice my corals are looking alot better than they did under led

 

[jdhuyvetter]

Just taggin along on this one. I'm getting ready to replace my MH w/LED's. But, I am in a unique position in that my MH's are supplemental lighting and not my primary light. I am using solar tubes and put 20K MH between the tubes for a couple hours a day. I was finding that I was getting insane growth in the summer, but in the winter, things browned out. So, my MH only run 2 hours a day in the summer and 4 in the winter.

 

[daviesri]

Following

 

[rtparty]

I was just wondering, but people keep writing that leds are not full spectrum or are soon to be full spectrum. Isn't 6500k considered full spectrum? I read in one of Sanjay's articles a while back that a photon was a photon. Also I was under the impression that the main differences between the spectrum was the way it travels. The yellow light (lower kelvin like 6500) is higher par at shallower depths but losses intensity, with bluer light of the spectrum traveling far deeper. But isn't 6500k also close to sunlight and has green and red in it as well, (I thought). Back in the old days I saw plenty of beautiful acro tanks with great growth and color using just 6500k halides. Yes the color may not show without some actinics, but the corals loved them. Having said that, my old sols had 6500k leds, and blues as well. Why did my acros not do well, they had 6500k's and two different blues. They should have been loving it. But then again, the 6500k leds weren't even close to being as bright as some of the old 6500k tanks I remember (to the eye). Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on the whole spectrum topic?

As posted above, a 6500k LED is no where near the same as a 6500k MH or t5 bulb.

LEDs are very, very narrow in their spectral peaks. A 6500k halide actually has a ton of blue in it but the reds and yellows counter act that and you see a more yellow glow. Whereas the LED has some blue and then a ton of yellow to make it appear 6500k to the human eye.

This is one major drawback to LEDs that most will never mention. White in essence should cover a large part of the spectrum but it is easy to trick the human eye. A little red, a little green and a little blue and bam! The human eye sees white. Although you don't truly have white light. (We don't need to get all technical here and start talking about light wavelengths and all that fun stuff. That is another topic.)

The important thing to remember is that just because your eye sees ''6500k'' doesn't mean it is truly there. The coral could be seeing and receiving something different.

That is why companies are moving towards the multi chip setups. I know of a company that is building a blue LED that will have 403, 415ish and 445nm chips in one package. This is where you will see the industry move IMO.

For example, kessil is doing this already and Ecoxotic has their cannons. The 100w cannon is 100 -1w chips packed tightly together. Now think of those 100 separate diodes being different colors to produce a true full spectrum. You could easily replicate a radium or phoenix bulb like this but last I checked the technology isn't quite there for it.


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[deepseadan]

I'm far from a lighting expert, but at the core of the issue is the fact that LEDs have a much more narrow spectral "spread" than MHs or T5s. If you look at the spectral plot of an MH or T5 lamp, the color temperature will correlate to a certain peak in the chart, but every other wavelength is represented to a certain degree. An LED, on the other hand, will have a sharp and narrow peak matching it's color temperature, and tails off very quickly as you go up to higher and down to lower wavelengths.

Hence, you can say that a 6500K bulb is "full spectrum" because although it has peaks in its spectral plot, it still generates light in other wavelengths, but you can't really say the same thing of an LED.

Yeah, I also think the positive effect of blue light from leds is way exaggerated. I've come to the conclusion that its great for "pop", but not much more. With my ai sols, I saw no difference in coral response from when the blues were at 100% or 20%, other than more glow. I did notice some difference when the whites were on. I've seen people looking for special par meters to measure the blue from leds, but I think their going down the wrong path. If you were to go to the reef, acros are very shallow and some are even out of the water fully exposed to the sun at times. If you were to take a par meter there I'm sure you would get high par readings, which is why high par readings in the reef tank are important too. Trying to get par from blue light doesn't seem reasonable and might be the reason leds are failing so far. I think the future will be a much higher wattage led, that has a 6500k spectrum, uses no optics and creates par readings close to metal halide. Then the blues can keep the corals looking sharp. Ultimately, it's about par.

 

[dragonet]

Its SLOW-MO for me

Its SLOW-MO for me

I've been reefing for over 12 years. My current tank is 200 gallons,up and running for 8 years.
I run on reefer time.......nothing is rushed
i spent 6 months deciding wether to remove a large shelf rock from the center of the tank.
I have been thinking about LEDs for 2 years.... I will think about it some more

Not all of us are out there with wallets open ready to purchase the latest and greatest
I think most of us are on reefer time

 

[deepseadan]

As posted above, a 6500k LED is no where near the same as a 6500k MH or t5 bulb.

LEDs are very, very narrow in their spectral peaks. A 6500k halide actually has a ton of blue in it but the reds and yellows counter act that and you see a more yellow glow. Whereas the LED has some blue and then a ton of yellow to make it appear 6500k to the human eye.

This is one major drawback to LEDs that most will never mention. White in essence should cover a large part of the spectrum but it is easy to trick the human eye. A little red, a little green and a little blue and bam! The human eye sees white. Although you don't truly have white light. (We don't need to get all technical here and start talking about light wavelengths and all that fun stuff. That is another topic.)

The important thing to remember is that just because your eye sees ''6500k'' doesn't mean it is truly there. The coral could be seeing and receiving something different.

That is why companies are moving towards the multi chip setups. I know of a company that is building a blue LED that will have 403, 415ish and 445nm chips in one package. This is where you will see the industry move IMO.

For example, kessil is doing this already and Ecoxotic has their cannons. The 100w cannon is 100 -1w chips packed tightly together. Now think of those 100 separate diodes being different colors to produce a true full spectrum. You could easily replicate a radium or phoenix bulb like this but last I checked the technology isn't quite there for it.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Interesting, I didn't know that about LEDs and their spectrum, you answered some questions that have been bothering me for a while. Hopefully others will read your post and learn as I did.

 

[mussel and hate]

As posted above, a 6500k LED is no where near the same as a 6500k MH or t5 bulb.

LEDs are very, very narrow in their spectral peaks. A 6500k halide actually has a ton of blue in it but the reds and yellows counter act that and you see a more yellow glow. Whereas the LED has some blue and then a ton of yellow to make it appear 6500k to the human eye.

While this could be it aint necesarily so.

White LEDs work on the same principle as white fluorescent lights. Both use blue light to energize a phosphor coating which Stokes shifts the light to different spectrums depending on the phosphor mix. What this means is that aside from how the blue light is generated LEDs actually do make white light just like T5s.

rtparty is correct in that a given aparent colour can be generated with different components. Meaning that I can make white with a RGB 3 colour LED array where the blue is 440nm or 460nm and to the human eye they could both apear identical. This is where LEDs become interesting because we can select our peaks to correspond with photosynthetic absorption peaks.

 

[rtparty]

While this could be it aint necesarily so.

White LEDs work on the same principle as white fluorescent lights. Both use blue light to energize a phosphor coating which Stokes shifts the light to different spectrums depending on the phosphor mix. What this means is that aside from how the blue light is generated LEDs actually do make white light just like T5s.

rtparty is correct in that a given aparent colour can be generated with different components. Meaning that I can make white with a RGB 3 colour LED array where the blue is 440nm or 460nm and to the human eye they could both apear identical. This is where LEDs become interesting because we can select our peaks to correspond with photosynthetic absorption peaks.

I don't think my point came across totally right in the beginning.

My point is that the spectrum from a 6500k led is WAY different than the spectrum from a 6500k halide or t5. I don't care how that light is necessarily created but the term 6500k is WAY too broad.

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[power boat jim]

So given all this, it sounds to me that the best combination should be LEDs run with a 6500k T5.