Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[sirreal63]

I like how most of you are comparing the best mh against middle of the run leds like radions and vegas even some diy setups. Compare your radion bulbs against a Vertex Illumina and see what happens

Radion is an LED fixture, not a bulb. The Vertex is still a White, Blue and Royal Blue fixture not unlike the Sol Blue? I think the point has eluded you, people have been reporting the LED's they have and the results they saw, if they had a Radion then how could they compare it to a Vertex, Mitra, Vega etc etc. All of these fixtures can support corals, what people have been saying is the corals change color, do not look the same and they went back to traditional lighting. This thread isn't brand specific but the experience of multiple fixtures and experienced aquarists.

 

[TMS]

If everyone could just take a step back with me, I think we are over estimating the efficiency that we can expect from LED's. After reading this it looks like people think that about 25% as much wattage as they had with MH will suffice. This is not the case. MH is for one thing a pretty efficient light bulb, being 5 times more efficient than incandescent lighting. A 250 watt radium has 80 lumens per watt, Cree xpg the one used in AI sols is 130 lumens per watt.
So 80/130 =.62
.62*250 = 153 watts

I have read on here people replacing 250 watt and even a few 400 watt radiums, the millenium falcon of reef lighting, with single led fixtures! This is crazy to replace a 250 you would need 153 watts of LED light or 2.13 Ai sols. This is before we even take spectrum into account too.

AI sols have 72 watts and Radions have 104 watts these can not do what a 250 watt Radium with a full spectrum can, its just impractical. "It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound coconut."

My 60 cube has 133 watts of Ecotech LEDs and I see great color and growth, get some pics up in a minute. Ecotech has its own LED's custom made by the company that makes crees, thats what they told me, so I dont know efficiency or lumens for them. I have had them for about 6 months now and have had good sps growth, however, I made many mistakes in trying to push up my calcium and alk and lost most of my sps so can't really say if they work or not.

As far as LED vs MH I think MH is an easy winner right now but LED's will keep getting cheaper, more powerful and with better spectrums and obviously in the next few years will overtake MH.

Note: 104 watts for the radion is based on the fact that we cant count red and green for helping grow corals until it is shown that they do, I am almost certain green doesnt and I think red does very little if anything, I do know that people speculate that corals that grow in shallow water use the red spectrum but there is no solid evidence that it actually happens.

 

[megadeth72]

there are single multichips that can run 250 watts right now provided you have adequate cooling

personally I dislike the 3w cree/bridgelux that so many use

 

[markaren]

I was in a LFS the other day and saw the radion go through all of its variables. Saw the computer link programming and am just AMAZED at the adjust-ability of what and when you can make this radion follow all day long from sun rise to sun set. I also actually like the red in there...it can be turned on at night and not disturb a thing, so you can watch night action

 

[mikeatjac]

I was in a LFS the other day and saw the radion go through all of its variables. Saw the computer link programming and am just AMAZED at the adjust-ability of what and when you can make this radion follow all day long from sun rise to sun set. I also actually like the red in there...it can be turned on at night and not disturb a thing, so you can watch night action

Yes, that is a huge plus over DIY system.

 

[megadeth72]

Yes, that is a huge plus over DIY system.

not sure what you mean, diy setups had this first

 

[chadfarmer]

alright sold on t5 on sps again 1.5 weeks into running t5s again, ran leds for over 15 months AI sol was i good start until about 5 months in and everything started to lose colors, than moved over to apollo and went from 4 leds to 2 on my main tank and everything did ok but had a few acros that havent done much in 9 months. in 1.5 weeks the 2 corlas did didnt do much i have notuced between 1/8 and 1/4 inch of growth. my red in my superman has came back also

radions are nice until u buy 3 of them and they are sitting on a shelf like my friend did with his, they didnt live up to the hype in his tank and he ran them for 5 months and went back to MH and a few weeks in he was happy again

 

[megadeth72]

t5 for sps never impressed me

 

[James77]

not sure what you mean, diy setups had this first

But a commercial LED fixture has those features integrated into on board computers and a program. A commercial fixture lacks the wires, the drivers, and "bare" look of a DIY LED setup, the typical one at least. I've toyed with going LED again, but not at the price of these commercial fixtures especially with the lack of spectrum that has only recently been addressed. I have and could do DIY again, but I don't quite feel like it, plus I would like a finished commercial looking fixture over my tank.

 

[mikeatjac]

not sure what you mean, diy setups had this first

Yes DIY had it first but it would take a lot of work to duplicate what a radion does. Well it is over my head!

 

[bhazard451]

the best leds right now are DIY multichip, not the 1-3w led arrays they are pretty weak compared

That is simply not true. I have a 180w Cree/Luxeon fixture that is much stronger and more efficient. This is with PAR measurements and 90 degree optics (not 60) over an actual tank.

 

[megadeth72]

That is simply not true. I have a 180w Cree/Luxeon fixture that is much stronger and more efficient. This is with PAR measurements and 90 degree optics (not 60) over an actual tank.

I disagree, 50 or 100 of the same leds in a 2" square with the same optics is going to be much higher par

with the 1-3w leds you have to spread out the leds, you simply cannot match the par because you cannot physically get them that close together

I too have a par meter

 

[megadeth72]

Yes DIY had it first but it would take a lot of work to duplicate what a radion does. Well it is over my head!

it's like lego's for adults, if you have a lot of channels the wiring gets to be a burdon, 2 wires per channel, I'm not aware of any drivers that can use a common ground, but I have not looked too hard

 

[markaren]

Short observation. I only have t5's for now.

If we compared the LED to cars when they first came out and then figured an equation as to how fast technology advances now on invention verses then, I kinda come up with this.

It is possible that a person giving opinion now on an LED they bought 2 years ago and then give up would be like...

...a person with a horse that goes faster and longer than a model T going ahead and buying a Model T and trying it for 30 years and then give up and go back to a horse.

Meanwhile the newer cars were Getting FAR FAR better but they assumed a car was just a model T. Led's are quite different than they they were 2 years ago and not anything like they were 5 years ago.

 

[chadfarmer]

t5 for sps never impressed me

thats why lighting is a personal experence

 

[chadfarmer]

im done with leds 2400 on AI sols and a pair of t5s than 1600 on apollos


i have not saved any money on my power bill and actually lost money on resale of my led units and rebuying new t5 fixtures


until there is a big improvement on leds

 

[megadeth72]

nice tank, would look better with point source lights, like mh or multichip led !

i've ran t5 and vho before that, I had a t5 sps tank, I did not like how it looks like a soft light from all over, I prefer point sources

I also do not like the chunk of aluminum lots of led 1/3w builds and comercial leds

 

[mhucasey]

Well, I switched from 2 Canon 100W LED Pendants with 2 18WLED full spectrum par38 LEDs to an 8X39W ATI Sunpower T5 fixture. WOW!

The intensity and coverage of the light is amazing compared to the LEDs! I thought I'd miss the shimmer but everything is so clear and the water seems luminous. The color is unreal - pinks and reds look like they should, purples look purple, the fish almost glow.

I love that I can swap out the bulbs to adjust the color. Im a very happy reefer right now!

 

[newenglandreef]

I've read though this entire thread, and I just need one thing explained to me. Learned a lot, so thank you.

Is everyone's conclusion that, because 420nm is lacking in LED, that the coral aren't getting enough light?

What's the connection between not enough 420nm and the color of the coral, and how does 420nm light influence the color of the corals? Are you all saying that the corals aren't getting enough energy to produce vibrant colors? I get the spectrum issue, I just don't get how that's connected to what we presently know about coral.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[mhucasey]

The missing ingredients with LEDs have been certain color peaks. The color in the 400-430 range is one of the biggest missing ingredients. The light in this range is a heavy part of the traditional light technologies like MH and T5.

First, light from this part of the spectrum does excite pigments within the corals, bringing a layer of color to the tank just by showing the color. I added some LED par 38 bulbs with 2 420nm emitters in each to the Blue and White LED pendants that I had and you could see the color change as soon as they were turned on.

Secondly, light in the ~420nm range actually corresponds to one of chlorophyl A's absorbance peaks, so its useful light to the coral. Also, light from the low 400nm range actually permanently affect certain coral pigments.


Most LEDs also are missing some red, which just affects the color rendition of pinks and purples. The newer LED fixtures are adding the missing colors to the mix but I was disappointed in my first foray into LED, and after spending 1500 on that experiment I've decided to wait a bit longer before buying any more LEDs. I've switched to T5s for now.