Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[power boat jim]

If there was an off the shelf solution for this, I would have considered it. I think T5's and LED's could be very promising. I think a lot of LED users help justify their purchases by wanting to completely eliminate bulb changes. Hybridizing kind of defeats that purpose. I'd still like a handful of LEDs so that I can create a true lunar cycle.

Its not hard to figure out, LEDs will grow coral all alone, if you want to customize color rendition use t5s with LEDs. You only need to run the t5s a couple hours in the evening when you are looking at the tank. Since the t5s are only on for a short time and have little or nothing to do with the growth of the coral, bulbs can last 5 years or more. This pretty much takes care of the bulb change thing.

I understand people want a stand alone lighting system, but with as varied of taste as people have in the way they want their tanks to look one really doesnt exist right now for everyone (as fussy as most of us are it may never happen)). MH, LED, T5 and VHO will all support an SPS tank on their own. Not many people run any one of these systems alone for the simple reason they dont like something in the way it makes the tank look or is not adjustable or whatever.

I see no crime in adding T5 to LEDs if thats what adds the last bit of pop to a tank. I dont remember seeing it advertised anywhere that LEDs would be the last great stand alone end all to reef lighting.

 

[advancebc29]

Don’t get me wrong folks I am not an LED nut I actually love the look that a nice T5s bulb combo can produce. But my tank runs a successful LED setup as I spent a very long time doing my research.

But I feel that most people on this thread are not comparing apples to apples and are ignoring the obvious facts that myself and others have posted. if you were running a nice T5 or halide setups and then went to a RB/W LED setup you are not going to like the results. You lost a lot of light spectrum and your tank is going to suffer for it.

Like I said before you can get the same negative results without changing light tech by drastically changing your light spectrum.

If you want to switch light tech you need to make sure that you are close to your existing spectrum and intensity. If not what did you think was going to happen?

Ecotech radions IMHO are not the answer as they are missing the second most prominent spectrum in good halides / T5 setups. I was very sad to see them comeout without a strong source of something near the 420 spectrum.

 

[reef4life07]

Hard to argue with that one

I switched last year to LEDs, and promptly switched right back to halides. All the coral that were not fairing well under the LEDs-for whatever reason- colored right back up and looked very healthy with a months time of swtiching back.

I had gone back to phoenix bulbs, but am going back to the above one with M80 ballasts and Radiums.

Don't want to change the topic, but where should I order radiums? Thanks

 

[sirreal63]

Look at the top of this page, your earlier request was answered.

 

[Mike de Leon]

Don’t get me wrong folks I am not an LED nut I actually love the look that a nice T5s bulb combo can produce. But my tank runs a successful LED setup as I spent a very long time doing my research.

But I feel that most people on this thread are not comparing apples to apples and are ignoring the obvious facts that myself and others have posted. if you were running a nice T5 or halide setups and then went to a RB/W LED setup you are not going to like the results. You lost a lot of light spectrum and your tank is going to suffer for it.

Like I said before you can get the same negative results without changing light tech by drastically changing your light spectrum.

If you want to switch light tech you need to make sure that you are close to your existing spectrum and intensity. If not what did you think was going to happen?

Ecotech radions IMHO are not the answer as they are missing the second most prominent spectrum in good halides / T5 setups. I was very sad to see them comeout without a strong source of something near the 420 spectrum.

Any thoughts on the new maxspect razor? It does have the 420nm that are missing from other manufactured units. I am struggling with heat issues right now and thought this unit will take care of it.
I know someone who has three radions over a 220 tank and he loves them..

BTW, I just recently downgraded to a 70 gallon and picked up a Sfiligoi fixture with 400 watt radiums. Just way too hot.

 

[advancebc29]

Any thoughts on the new maxspect razor? It does have the 420nm that are missing from other manufactured units. I am struggling with heat issues right now and thought this unit will take care of it.
I know someone who has three radions over a 220 tank and he loves them..

BTW, I just recently downgraded to a 70 gallon and picked up a Sfiligoi fixture with 400 watt radiums. Just way too hot.

It is all about matching or close to matching what you currently have. If your current light has a large amount of something your new light should have that spectrum as well.

 

[Tickle]

In one month with leds my birdnest grew 10 fold and my hammer split. My color was the same exact color that ora showed on their website. Im a firm believer in the 420 spectrum though my tank holds none of that they will be a addition in the near future. No pics of the tank atm. I dropped my unit into a 10 gallon trying to get a feel and needless to say they didnt last long after. New leds are in the mail and will be here in one week.

the phone in my hands

 

[nynick]

Oddly it seems that the "cheap Chinese" manufacturers that people have been laughing at now have some of the best lights there are. Sure if you go with the 50/50 bulbs and a mystery driver for 98 bucks you will probably be going back to MH very fast. You can also get Cree bulbs, Osram reds, the 420s from several manufacturers, top of the line drivers, programming (if you like that, or knobs for people like me ) and custom ratios. Not going to be 98 bucks obviously but nowhere near 800 either.

Saying that you got the new Maxspect Razor sounds a lot cooler than the new Szechuan 120 though

 

[OneReef]

In one month with leds my birdnest grew 10 fold and my hammer split. My color was the same exact color that ora showed on their website. Im a firm believer in the 420 spectrum though my tank holds none of that they will be a addition in the near future. No pics of the tank atm. I dropped my unit into a 10 gallon trying to get a feel and needless to say they didnt last long after. New leds are in the mail and will be here in one week.

the phone in my hands

I don't think anyone is questioning whether LEDs can grow coral well or not, or whether you can keep some great looking corals under them. The question in my mind, as I have posted my experience with AI Sols and MH, is that while I did grow SPS under my LEDs and had some good colors on some Corals, it's whether or not LEDs can grow a full color spectrum of all SPS color rainbow like MH can. In my opinion, LEDs lack the ability at the current technology to grow ALL colors well without supplementation.

 

[power boat jim]

I don't think anyone is questioning whether LEDs can grow coral well or not, or whether you can keep some great looking corals under them. The question in my mind, as I have posted my experience with AI Sols and MH, is that while I did grow SPS under my LEDs and had some good colors on some Corals, it's whether or not LEDs can grow a full color spectrum of all SPS color rainbow like MH can. In my opinion, LEDs lack the ability at the current technology to grow ALL colors well without supplementation.

Though you question is a valid one, I had the same problem with MH. Though I ran them for 9 years, there were corals that did not color up well under them. I am now getting better results with AIs and a couple hrs of t5s then I did with MH 20,000Ks alone and MH supplimented with t5s. LIke I said earlier I dont know if there is a stand alone lighting system that will satisfy us. By what I mean beter results is better all around color. Growth rates are about equal under either system.

 

[advancebc29]

I don't think anyone is questioning whether LEDs can grow coral well or not, or whether you can keep some great looking corals under them. The question in my mind, as I have posted my experience with AI Sols and MH, is that while I did grow SPS under my LEDs and had some good colors on some Corals, it's whether or not LEDs can grow a full color spectrum of all SPS color rainbow like MH can. In my opinion, LEDs lack the ability at the current technology to grow ALL colors well without supplementation.

How can you say this? :fun4:
With enough planning LEDs can match any halide in both spectrum and output.
you were using an AI sol which is a typical B/W led setup that most likely looked terrible compared to your previous setup.

again and I am saying this in a nice tone. People are not comparing apples to apples and are completely throwing all notion of light spectrum out the window.

 

[KCombs]

is that sarcasm I detect

No...none

 

[bhazard451]

Oddly it seems that the "cheap Chinese" manufacturers that people have been laughing at now have some of the best lights there are. Sure if you go with the 50/50 bulbs and a mystery driver for 98 bucks you will probably be going back to MH very fast. You can also get Cree bulbs, Osram reds, the 420s from several manufacturers, top of the line drivers, programming (if you like that, or knobs for people like me ) and custom ratios. Not going to be 98 bucks obviously but nowhere near 800 either.

Saying that you got the new Maxspect Razor sounds a lot cooler than the new Szechuan 120 though

I wouldn't say best. The Cree models they have, all still use older gen Crees, and you don't know what bin they use.

The bridgelux/epistar models vary in quality as well. If you get one that uses a good bin however, you can achieve nearly 70% of the output of a Cree, at a much lower cost per led. You can make up the loss in intensity by adding more leds, like the 55 led ones have.

The Maxspect uses (mostly) newer gen XT-E leds, comes with a controller, leg bracket, and has a unique design. It is still something I may add over my 120 gallon in the future.

 

[KCombs]

^ This. The issue that most people have, which is a very valid one, is that those who bought earlier led units and shelled out lots of money for them, feel completely burned on their purchase. If you pay that much money, you feel it better grow your coral, look outstanding, and last a long time. One year later, and it is already obsolete.

Those of us that have started trying to hit the spectrum better with DIY are getting great results, but if you think about the commercial market fixtures, only one of them has this wavelength, and it literally just came out. Those weary to switch have every reason to be cautious, especially if they have well established tanks.

and this post is saying what many of us are thinking:
maybe commercial units haven't shucked out all the bugs yet

...there will always be people that shell out big bucks and defend their purchase to the end...
in the same breath I wouldn't call all of the LED proponents liars (hardly), but I would say if someone shelled out $1000 for a commercial unit, that they might be inclined to be a lil more optimistic/hopeful of the performance than say one of us peanut gallery types looking on from the side lines

...I realize being a skeptic/critic is easy; it has no downside...still I would like to see a TOTM worth tank that grew some 1" sps sticks with LED's from beginning to end

 

[advancebc29]

still I would like to see a TOTM worth tank that grew some 1" sps sticks with LED's from beginning to end

An argument of there are no TOTM that use LEDs so LEDs are not going to work is not a very good one.

If one of the TOTMs looked at their current spectrum and intensity and then went and tried to closely match that spectrum and intensity using any type of light tech they should have little to no issues. But blindly switching and cutting out large chunks of spectrum or messing with intensity can cause an issue.

 

[Anemonebuff]

I suspect that people who start their tanks with LEDs have a better experience than most who have had T5 or MH. When switching to LEDS we have a difficult way of matching our previous lighting in color, intensity, spread....etc. We find some of our corals lose color, bleach, grow slower, or occasionally the opposite. I had similar issues when I switched from VHO to MH. Just as T5s may not be for some, MH and LEDs are not for others.
Personally, I prefer LEDs due to their energy savings, less heat, compact size, and shimmer. I like the color I have, but can see where others do not like the spotlighting, disco balling, lack of spread, etc.
I think most of us would benefit better if posters would just post why they like/dislike LEDs/T5/MH, rather than bash one in particular.

 

[sirreal63]

advancebc29, I would enjoy seeing a few pics of your tank with your current and past lighting.

 

[advancebc29]

I think most of us would benefit better if posters would just post why they like/dislike LEDs/T5/MH, rather than bash one in particular.

I think most people need to realize why the change in lighting tech regardless of what is was failed in their eyes. But most people want to turn a blind eye to that and that is extremely obvious in this thread.

Listen we all made huge expensive mistakes in this hobby at some point. It's OK. But is is good to understand why something didn't work instead of saying something just won't work or is no good.

 

[KCombs]

An argument of there are no TOTM that use LEDs so LEDs are not going to work is not a very good one.

If one of the TOTMs looked at their current spectrum and intensity and then went and tried to closely match that spectrum and intensity using any type of light tech they should have little to no issues. But blindly switching and cutting out large chunks of spectrum or messing with intensity can cause an issue.

I phrased that poorly:

I was thinking it would be beneficial to see a tank ran with LED's from "1st cycle" (with 1" SPS sticks) to a finished TOTM "worthy" maturity...
(TOTM meant as a comparison/adjective, not literally)

...that point about "missing spectrums" has been one one my concerns also,,, ...I still would love to see a good & comprehensive laymens chart/explanation of exactly what zoox's need spectrally anyway

I suspect that people who start their tanks with LEDs have a better experience than most who have had T5 or MH. When switching to LEDS we have a difficult way of matching our previous lighting in color, intensity, spread....etc. We find some of our corals lose color, bleach, grow slower, or occasionally the opposite. I had similar issues when I switched from VHO to MH. Just as T5s may not be for some, MH and LEDs are not for others.
Personally, I prefer LEDs due to their energy savings, less heat, compact size, and shimmer. I like the color I have, but can see where others do not like the spotlighting, disco balling, lack of spread, etc.
I think most of us would benefit better if posters would just post why they like/dislike LEDs/T5/MH, rather than bash one in particular.

...thats a good point; how long has your tank been set up, and was it LED from end to end? or are you speaking from experience (with regard to switching over and experiencing adjustment issues)

 

[advancebc29]

advancebc29, I would enjoy seeing a few pics of your tank with your current and past lighting.

I have lots of pics (on other sites that can't be mentioned here) and videos on youtube. Just nothing with my DSLR camera of recent (last 5-6 months) as my life has been very occupied with my first child and an insane work schedule. Acatually taking down my frag tank which is T5 powered.

I enjoy all types of lighting especially T5s and I am not an LED junkie. I just want people to try to understand why something failed regardless of what the change was instead of blind statements. Blind statements of something is crap or wont work without an understanding is a large pet peeve of mine. It is the engineer in me