Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[meshwheel]

Sometimes.................................I have to remind myself that we are dealing with SPS corals. ALOT OF US, AND THAT ALOT OF THESE LED'S ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR SPS. Some are just mere lights for fish only tanks.
This is really not fair to the manufacturer, who did not design them for that intended purpose. It's up to us, the hobbyist to be educated enough to know that SPS corals come from high energy zones and require extreme conditions to flourish in our aquariums.
I know all too well many people complaining do NOT have their water parameters dialed in correctly, so the correct lighting is not going to fix their problems.
I would not suggest any SPS corals to a guy just getting into the hobby............

 

[rrasco]

I like to think I know what I'm doing...then there was SPS.

 

[Solov]

I agree with Mesh - whenever I notice coloring or extension problem it's always the water. Fix that and everything back to normal under same old LEDs.

As long as your LEDs are of a correct color and good power (about 1/3 of MH rating) they should not be a problem.

 

[good_reefer]

Why did most people go with LED? Mostly because of power usage and lack of bulb replacement. I don't think anything compares to MH and T-5 Supplement. I was seriously gonna go with LED but not so sure anymore.. If money wasn't a problem then I'd go 2x 400 MH.

i am in the process .... im kinda new to the world and heard great things about AI SOLS .... i was doing it for the heat ..... please guide me yoda(S)
I am but a lowly newbie .....

thanks in advance

Jay

 

[chadfarmer]

u can have your leds, ill wait it out, there is no way they will last 10 years, compair a year old unit to a brand new one and its a lot dimmer look it up on here if you dont believe me

 

[power boat jim]

i am in the process .... im kinda new to the world and heard great things about AI SOLS .... i was doing it for the heat ..... please guide me yoda(S)
I am but a lowly newbie .....

thanks in advance

Jay

I have had mine (AIs) for 20 months, I have nothing but good things to say about them. Excelllent color, no heat problems and havnt bought a light bulb in 2 years.I highly recommend them. Just be careful on how high you turn them up, they pack a pretty good punch.

 

[Ron Reefman]

i am in the process .... im kinda new to the world and heard great things about AI SOLS .... i was doing it for the heat ..... please guide me yoda(S)
I am but a lowly newbie .....
Jay

I had 4 250W MH, 200W of t5 and 100W of led stunner on my 180g. It looked good and my corals did great. I switched to leds because the cost of a good full spectrum fixture came down so dramatically when EverGrow (and now their distributor Reef Breeders) started selling the IT (RB calls it their Photon) fixtures. I would have needed 3 or 4 Eco Tech Radions ($750 each= $2250-$3000 total) for quality lights. I got 2 EverGrow IT2080's for under $700 in a group buy and they seem to be working just fine. Two months in and my corals are growing just as well if not better than under the old lights.

I switched for a number of reasons. The heat (I already live in SW Florida, I don't need more heat), cost of elec (old system 1300W, new system 480W and my chiller hardly runs at all anymore!), cost of bulbs (4 MH and 4 T5 vs none), ability to change the colors in my tank with the push of a button (rather than buying and changing bulbs), quality timer/controller (I had 5 digital, battery backed up timers on the old system) and 2 power cords vs the 10 for the old system.

u can have your leds, ill wait it out, there is no way they will last 10 years, compair a year old unit to a brand new one and its a lot dimmer look it up on here if you dont believe me

You can wait. I was a serious doubter too. But the full spectrum leds like the Eco Tech and AI's had my interest, but they are just WAY over priced for what they are. Then I talked to Sanjay Joshi at MACNA and I was more interested. But when EverGrow came out with 'you design it' full spectrum, with a controller built in at prices at or below the cost of MH, I just had to take the leap.

If you shop a bit and buy right a quality full spectrum led doesn't cost as much as a quality new MH. So why does it have to last 10 years? No heat, less energy, easy color changes, no need for timers or controllers... If they last 5 years I'm happy. I had to do significant repairs to both of my MH fixtures at 1 year (burn end caps where the bulb goes in) and over 3 years I've spent almost as much on MH bulbs as the EverGrow lights cost me in total! Heck, if they last me for 3-4 years, I'm just fine with that. The old, 'because they'll last 10-15 years' argument isn't important anymore, unless you want to buy the seriously over priced Eco Tech and AI type fixtures.

 

[bhazard451]

u can have your leds, ill wait it out, there is no way they will last 10 years, compair a year old unit to a brand new one and its a lot dimmer look it up on here if you dont believe me

A metal halide or T5 bulb doesn't last 10 years either. Your point?

 

[mess7777]

u can have your leds, ill wait it out, there is no way they will last 10 years, compair a year old unit to a brand new one and its a lot dimmer look it up on here if you dont believe me

I have had my LED set up for a little over 2 years and I bought them used.

They are not stellar by any means...but can perhaps help with this part of the debate. Shortly after I got them I tested with a par meter and got about 200 right below the water level.

I have 6 seperate heads with LEDS in them....1 happened to die which was covered under a warranty. I had these LEDs replaced about 3 weeks ago. I happened to have access to a PAR meter again. The PAR under the 2-3 year old LEDs was virtually identical to the PAR under the newly replaced ones. I have been using them for 9-12 hours a day throughout these 2 years. There is no reason to believe that they will lose output dramatically going forward.

That said, with only 200 PAR, as my taste in corals has become more towards SPS and light loving corals....it's time to replace!

 

[power boat jim]

I have had my LED set up for a little over 2 years and I bought them used.

They are not stellar by any means...but can perhaps help with this part of the debate. Shortly after I got them I tested with a par meter and got about 200 right below the water level.

I have 6 seperate heads with LEDS in them....1 happened to die which was covered under a warranty. I had these LEDs replaced about 3 weeks ago. I happened to have access to a PAR meter again. The PAR under the 2-3 year old LEDs was virtually identical to the PAR under the newly replaced ones. I have been using them for 9-12 hours a day throughout these 2 years. There is no reason to believe that they will lose output dramatically going forward.

That said, with only 200 PAR, as my taste in corals has become more towards SPS and light loving corals....it's time to replace!

The LEDs Im running have 230 par on the sand bed and 800 just under the surface. Those numbers have not changed in 20 months. The lights are set at only 70%. I pay very little mind to the "they wont last" blather. Opinions are fine but the numbers are starting to show different then some of those opinions.

 

[rtparty]

A metal halide or T5 bulb doesn't last 10 years either. Your point?

There has been talk that some companies will be releasing t5 bulbs that last 50k hours. Will we ever see them for our use? Who knows.

But metal halide and t5s have never been promoted to last 10 years and haven't been praised as the greatest thing to ever happen in the existence of mankind.

For me, my LEDs are perfect...sitting in the closet collecting dust.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

 

[JP Reef]

There has been talk that some companies will be releasing t5 bulbs that last 50k hours. Will we ever see them for our use? Who knows.

But metal halide and t5s have never been promoted to last 10 years and haven't been praised as the greatest thing to ever happen in the existence of mankind.

For me, my LEDs are perfect...sitting in the closet collecting dust.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

I started this hobby just over 3 years ago, and T5's and MH were praised beyond belief. I looked into LED's at that time due to the lifespan, but nothing I wanted to venture into was in the marketplace yet unless you are a good DIY.

No offense, but T5's and MH are tapped out in technology. Many people that have older LED setup's don't use the new LED's on the market. LED's are now starting to find a larger market and have nowhere to go but up. Big difference in a 3W Cree LED or Brightwell then the old 1/2W or 1W LED's.

If you are waiting, there is no issue with that and if you are happy with your current setup then I wouldn't change either.

 

[strittmatter]

No offense, but T5's and MH are tapped out in technology.
LED's are now starting to find a larger market and have nowhere to go but up.

I agree with both of these statements but MH may be tapped out but they are also proven and work great. Little downside IMO, heat is not an issue with LumenBright pendants 12" off the water, and if you complain about eletric cost you are in the wrong hobby. How many people with Lambo's complain about the MPG and cost of gas?

 

[bhazard451]

There has been talk that some companies will be releasing t5 bulbs that last 50k hours. Will we ever see them for our use? Who knows.

But metal halide and t5s have never been promoted to last 10 years and haven't been praised as the greatest thing to ever happen in the existence of mankind.

For me, my LEDs are perfect...sitting in the closet collecting dust.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

That's the fault of the fixture manufacturers trying to take a half truth to sell a product. A led can absolutely last 10 years and still put out ~70% of its original brightness. Go look at your hdtv if you need proof of that. Problem is, a fixture will become obsolete well before that. It is up to you, the buyer, to research the best option, not to have a company tell you.

From your bitterness, you can tell that Ecotech screwed you with a Gen1 Radion. You thought it would be the greatest thing ever because that's how they promoted it. You found out the hard way that it isn't the case.

I've adapted my led layout multiple times since I started using them, and they have gotten better each time. They now work just as well as my old MH/T5 setup, and this is over many months of tracking and growth watching.

If you want to be successful with leds right now, you have to be willing to adopt a DIY approach, otherwise MH/T5 is the best option. Us DIY users are the ones providing all the R&D to these companies. Half the time, they end up coming out with similar layouts a year later after DIY led users implement them. Watch how 430nm leds will start sneaking their way into fixtures.

 

[rtparty]

I started this hobby just over 3 years ago, and T5's and MH were praised beyond belief. I looked into LED's at that time due to the lifespan, but nothing I wanted to venture into was in the marketplace yet unless you are a good DIY.

No offense, but T5's and MH are tapped out in technology. Many people that have older LED setup's don't use the new LED's on the market. LED's are now starting to find a larger market and have nowhere to go but up. Big difference in a 3W Cree LED or Brightwell then the old 1/2W or 1W LED's.

If you are waiting, there is no issue with that and if you are happy with your current setup then I wouldn't change either.

How can you say they are tapped out? You see the future? There have been leaps in both technologies just recently and if companies are working on bulbs that last 50k hours, obviously they aren't "tapped" out.

If people are happy with LEDs, great. I'm glad they found something to work for them. I loved my LEDs at the beginning. I thought they were awesome. It wasn't until I dropped my ego and realized my corals weren't as great as they could be that I dumped them. I got a t5 unit again and within a week, my sps turned around. My lps have made a huge jump as well and I didn't think they had anything wrong. My lps actually did pretty well under LEDs I thought. They are doing better now though.

In my opinion, there are very, very few people that promote LEDs that have run them for any decent amount of time. Most are under 6 months of use. Power boat Jim is one of the exceptions to this and I'm glad he has success.

I went 18 months with mine. The experiment was fun but I'm glad they're off the tank.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

 

[VoiceInTheDeser]

I'm about to put LED's over my nano reef replacing my T5s. I don't keep any SPS and it's a shallow tank, so most anything will work I imagine, but I'm still very curious to see what happens. My logic is that it looks better, provides adequate light for what I want to grow and it's cheaper in terms of power consumption and bulb replacement.

I do think it's kinda funny how certain people are somewhat fanatical about their preferences in lights. I did a lot of research leading up to my choice of lights and it's bizzare how attached some people are to certain lighting techs.

 

[power boat jim]

How can you say they are tapped out? You see the future? There have been leaps in both technologies just recently and if companies are working on bulbs that last 50k hours, obviously they aren't "tapped" out.

If people are happy with LEDs, great. I'm glad they found something to work for them. I loved my LEDs at the beginning. I thought they were awesome. It wasn't until I dropped my ego and realized my corals weren't as great as they could be that I dumped them. I got a t5 unit again and within a week, my sps turned around. My lps have made a huge jump as well and I didn't think they had anything wrong. My lps actually did pretty well under LEDs I thought. They are doing better now though.

In my opinion, there are very, very few people that promote LEDs that have run them for any decent amount of time. Most are under 6 months of use. Power boat Jim is one of the exceptions to this and I'm glad he has success.

I went 18 months with mine. The experiment was fun but I'm glad they're off the tank.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

I dont know why my experience is so different. I even recently put a MH back up over the center of the tank just to see if there would be difference in coloration. After a couple weeks, there was none. I even found that running the LEDs at 58/70/72 has exactly the same look as 20k coralife MH bulb.

I dont particularly love LEDS or think they are the be all end all. Halides are in my opinion, probably still the most foolproof way to grow sps. They just come with a huge downside in all the heat they produce. LEDs made my house more livable at a lower cost and I managed to keep my sps colored up and growing at the same time. I just want to see all sides portrayed fairly in the discussions. Its much easier to make a good decision on what to use if things are done that way.:beer:

 

[JP Reef]

How can you say they are tapped out? You see the future? There have been leaps in both technologies just recently and if companies are working on bulbs that last 50k hours, obviously they aren't "tapped" out.

If people are happy with LEDs, great. I'm glad they found something to work for them. I loved my LEDs at the beginning. I thought they were awesome. It wasn't until I dropped my ego and realized my corals weren't as great as they could be that I dumped them. I got a t5 unit again and within a week, my sps turned around. My lps have made a huge jump as well and I didn't think they had anything wrong. My lps actually did pretty well under LEDs I thought. They are doing better now though.

In my opinion, there are very, very few people that promote LEDs that have run them for any decent amount of time. Most are under 6 months of use. Power boat Jim is one of the exceptions to this and I'm glad he has success.

I went 18 months with mine. The experiment was fun but I'm glad they're off the tank.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

T5 lights last for 50k hours now, but don't maintain spectrum. I am really curious to see what they could possibly do to maintain spectrum from the current average of around 5k to 50k.

 

[Ron Reefman]

There has been talk that some companies will be releasing t5 bulbs that last 50k hours. Will we ever see them for our use? Who knows.
For me, my LEDs are perfect...sitting in the closet collecting dust.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

I agree that MH and t5 lighting works great and they are pretty easy to deal with. If my leds fail me or my coral, I'll switch back in a heartbeat. And I don't think most people 'complain' about electricity usage, they just state that leds are more efficient.

t5 bulbs last a long time now. The problem is they shift in spectrum and in some cases, where people have tanks on the verge of growing problem algae, the shift in spectrum exacerbates the problem. So people routinely replace them every 6, 9 or 12 months. MH bulbs do lose output over time but still last 1 to as much as 2 years. The biggest change I see is the move to full spectrum leds and the fact that led fixtures for any given tank are already price competitive with MH &t5 fixtures, even before you consider the other advantages.

I'm glad your leds are happy in the closet.

 

[rtparty]

That's the fault of the fixture manufacturers trying to take a half truth to sell a product. A led can absolutely last 10 years and still put out ~70% of its original brightness. Go look at your hdtv if you need proof of that. Problem is, a fixture will become obsolete well before that. It is up to you, the buyer, to research the best option, not to have a company tell you.

From your bitterness, you can tell that Ecotech screwed you with a Gen1 Radion. You thought it would be the greatest thing ever because that's how they promoted it. You found out the hard way that it isn't the case.

I've adapted my led layout multiple times since I started using them, and they have gotten better each time. They now work just as well as my old MH/T5 setup, and this is over many months of tracking and growth watching.

If you want to be successful with leds right now, you have to be willing to adopt a DIY approach, otherwise MH/T5 is the best option. Us DIY users are the ones providing all the R&D to these companies. Half the time, they end up coming out with similar layouts a year later after DIY led users implement them. Watch how 430nm leds will start sneaking their way into fixtures.

I only ran the radion for a little bit. The fixture wasn't bad at all, it was the two hours of programing it that I couldn't stand!

I called for the violet LEDs years ago. I used them before just about anyone else as well. I saw a marked improvement with them too. It just seemed no matter what I added, the LEDs were always a step behind in color.

I don't care about bulb replacements or electricity. It is cheap here in Utah. I care about color and LEDs never provided that for me in the long run. I'm not willing to build a system using 18 different colored LEDs and then get a disco effect somewhere in the tank. I've seen dozens of tanks with LEDs and many tell me there is no disco effect. I spot it in seconds and I can never not see it after that. It is a curse.