Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[MrIcky]

There is such a thing as "too much control". You would have done better with a Reef Breeders Value.
And the "unsatisfied users" tend to put their leds too high or use outdated fixtures. Few full spectrum fixtures are ranted against. Take the Radion Pro; almost no bad reviews on that one.

I agree, control is great for experts but I believe people are fiddling with their lights too much and shocking/frying/never acclimating their livestock because 'look at my disco lights'. It's great if you know what you are doing, but I've watched people's tank decline because, I think, they are playing with settings every day. I'm not saying I know what I'm doing, either btw.

Nothing to do with Firebird, I'm glad he's found something that works for him.

 

[Allentown]

Just simple ramp up (blue to white) -re-ramp up (blue to white). Ramp to blue and then evening programs on mine. They change spectrum continuously through the day and so far the few things in my tank have never looked better.

 

[NaClTDog]

Ok gang I am running 2 90gal tanks on the same sump with the same type of in tank circulation pumps. one tanks has 2 AI Sol blues and the other has 2 400w MH. (I will be buying new bulbs soon).

I have a purple monti frag that lived through a 3 day power outage and then later that same month was flooded with creek water and car oil and gas. My basement was doing double duty as fish room and resting area for a restored 1969 triumph GT6 .

Everything was dead, or so I thought.

The tanks sat there for 3 weeks. The salinity didn't even register. When I was done crying, I drained all the water, replaced with new saltwater and waited. After running carbon for a week the gas/oil smell went away. As I started to get ready to rebuild I saw deep in the center of my 12inch plus wide DEAD flesh-less monti, a dime size area of white tissue. 3 Weeks later the color came back. Now I am getting ready to frag it and put the frag in the LED tank.

So now that you all have that back ground knowledge, I will see which light, LED or MH will grow this (I am not dead yet, super monti) faster. Report to follow in a couple months.

 

[maroun.c]

I would extend the experiment to a few more SPS as some could do better in LED lit system than in MH lit ones and vice versa.
2x400 W MH over a 90G!!! You must have crazy high par readings.

 

[heritage]

+1 That's my experience as well with montipora. Superman and undata grow fine, acropora on the other hand is hit or miss.

 

[boxorocks]

Acros and millis are what I would be after. LEDs tend to fry them.

 

[firebirdude]

Wow! Im surprised that even with individually controllable channels of 417,430,44-460,480-496,500-510, 540-590, 630,647, and 664nm, you still didnt have success with leds and had to hang them up.

There is such a thing as "too much control". You would have done better with a Reef Breeders Value.

What the hell are you guys talking about? I never even mentioned which fixture I used or how much control I had...:facepalm:

 

[asid61]

What the hell are you guys talking about? I never even mentioned which fixture I used or how much control I had...:facepalm:

Oops. I was reading off Aqualund's post.
Which fixture did you use? If you went with 10k white and royal blue, then that's a problem.

 

[jinks]

The statement that peoples problem is that they have the 1st generation LEDs is one of the big problems with LEDs. After the patent for reef LEDs fell through all these companies rushed to produce units. None of them did any long term tests on how well they would work. They sold units that could not really do what they claimed. People were paying good money to be part of a companies testing that they should of done on their own dime. All because of the excitement and build up surrounding them. I cant think of the last time a reef product company did something so irresponsible and still had people defend them. This alone is enough to make me turn my back on many of the LED producers. If a tank maker was making tanks that leaked after 1 year and then later released a new one that had new improved seals would you buy from them again even if the new tanks were good?

 

[Aqualund]

What the hell are you guys talking about? I never even mentioned which fixture I used or how much control I had...:facepalm:

that was sarcasm. Even today there are no prebuilt fixtures that offer that, and very few DIYer's do that today let alone two years ago. Were UV led's (395,417,430) even available en mass two years ago? So I kind of get the idea that you didnt have that as well. Therefore (Im assuming) your lack of success with leds can be attributed to exactly that. Not the leds themselves.

For instance, on my fixtures I have 3 different flavors of leds just between 395 and 430nm. I have a total of 8 individually controllable channels, and they are all programmed to provide a ramping, changing, full spectrum that mimics the spectrum plot on the Great Barrier Reef.

I get everything the MH has to offer, with less cost, less heat, and more control.

The secret to LED's for now is DIY and research.

 

[bernie lyons]

led's

led's

After 100s of hours of reading and nearly a G into a custom LED setup (no optics FYI), and about 2 years of use, I gave up on them (officially about 2 years ago). Went with MH. Tank is loving it. LEDs will surely have their place in this hobby, but they're just WAY WAY too new. Everyone claims to know the specific spectrum corals like and the brightness needed, etc, but look at all these replies of unsatisfied users. Nuff said. We're all just guinea pigs right now. No thank you. I probably won't touch them again regardless of what happens in the next 10 years.

Hoh hum...I guess science stub it's toe , back to the drawing board again !

 

[jinks]

less cost, what LEDs are you using?

 

[Aqualund]

Im using chinese leds. at $1-$2 an led. Not that im saying that is better than any other...it's just what i am using right now. Mostly because of ease of ordering and how easy it is to install and swap lenses.

Besides that, even if I went with all cree leds, it would still cost less money to light my tank than a metal halide, now that the meanwell ldd drivers are easy to get and cheap.

I have 100 3w leds over my 110, but run them anywhere from 40-60% at any given time, with 16 ldd drivers. so even though i have the capacity to run 300w of lighting, its probably much more like 180-200w. maybe even less because of ramping. right there, that was about $250. after all the wiring and arduino controller random stuff and making it look pretty, probably close to $350-$400. give or take $25.

but im probably low balling a bit...i bet the little things like solder and screws would add up if i looked at it closer.

 

[boxorocks]

For instance, on my fixtures I have 3 different flavors of leds just between 395 and 430nm. I have a total of 8 individually controllable channels, and they are all programmed to provide a ramping, changing, full spectrum that mimics the spectrum plot on the Great Barrier Reef.

I get everything the MH has to offer, with less cost, less heat, and more control.

The secret to LED's for now is DIY and research.

You have a build thread? Inquiring minds would like to know!

 

[bernie lyons]

assumtion

assumtion

that was sarcasm. Even today there are no prebuilt fixtures that offer that, and very few DIYer's do that today let alone two years ago. Were UV led's (395,417,430) even available en mass two years ago? So I kind of get the idea that you didnt have that as well. Therefore (Im assuming) your lack of success with leds can be attributed to exactly that. Not the leds themselves.

For instance, on my fixtures I have 3 different flavors of leds just between 395 and 430nm. I have a total of 8 individually controllable channels, and they are all programmed to provide a ramping, changing, full spectrum that mimics the spectrum plot on the Great Barrier Reef.

I get everything the MH has to offer, with less cost, less heat, and more control.

The secret to LED's for now is DIY and research.

Why do you draw conclusions without varifying the facts ; Quote: "were UV led's (395,417,430)even available en mass two years ago? Therefore (I'm assuming) ??? your lack of success with led's can be attributed to exactly that??? How about asking the owner the details as to why the led's FAILED for him , as opposed to concluding your own theories!
"I get everything the MH has to offer" REALLY ?-Show us some "real", not photoshoped, pic's too prove this please ? SPS shots would nice !
I get the strong feeling that your 'agenda" here is to sell your own custom fixture's more than anything else...just my opinion ofcourse !

 

[Aqualund]

Sell my custom fixtures? Where do you get that from? I dont sell led fixtures. My agenda here is to fight the anecdotal "evidence" people have about their led experience.

If you read my previous posts on this thread you can easily see why I would say things like this about the sub 450nm spectrum. I base most of my position off scientific studies which have shown this to be true. Furthermore, I can say I could not find leds that fit this need until about a year ago. That is why I make that "assumption."

I will be posting a build thread of my fixture once this semester is over and I can finish all the cosmetic stuff! Maybe someone would like to come take pictures of the corals?

I didnt ask the owner what failed him, because if he didn't do what I sarcastically pointed out, then that's what failed him.

It's just like making the assumption that people didn't fly on airplanes in 1895. Yes it might be a presumption on my part, but I can pretty much guarantee no1 was flying an airplane in 1895.

 

[MedRed]

You have a build thread? Inquiring minds would like to know!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2158944

 

[Aqualund]

thax med. And those pictures are from when i used to think ecorays were awesome. I was so naive. here are some pictures I literally just took with my crappy canon powershot. no photoshop involved. Granted, they dont look like sanjay's but I'm working on it! Colors are definitely not crap like everyone says leds are for sps.

If you want, I can literally post a video of taking the pictures and posting them to imgur if you still do not believe me lol.

 

[bernie lyons]

tank pictures

tank pictures

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2158944

Well, what conclusion do I draw from this ??? Would I go and buy these so-called "perfect led's" ??? As like any scientific study,it's always prudent to wait and see what happens in a couple of years and then study -via "eyes" what the tank looks like by then..assuming ofcourse nothing dies by then .

 

[Aqualund]

The conclusion you should draw is that regardless of what you think, these corals, have been alive in my tank for 3 years, and have color and growth. that is the only conclusion you need to have. What you do with that information is up to you, but I would prefer you not deter new users from being interested in leds because of false idea that leds can not provide these things (color, growth, health).