Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[power boat jim]

You've hit the nail on the head with that one. In my DIY LED rig I run one of the more popular drivers (basically the power supply) made by Mean Well. And they don't even publish MBTF times, just a 2 year warrenty. And that in itself says something. The LEDs might last for 10 years, but I'd wager dollars to doughnuts that most drivers are going to fail WAY in advance of that. Particular because they get warm. And heat is the death of electronic circuitry.

Otherwise, why don't my drivers have a 5 of 10 year warranty? Bottom line, IMO LED users that think they've got a 10+ year fixture are kidding themselves.

I dont think you can judge a products usefull lifespan by the length of the warranty it comes with (except for cell phones). There are tons of products that outlive their warranty. My stereo receiver gets warmer then my LEDs and its 10 years old and thats ony one example.

 

[heritage]

For now, I would take a wait and see approach when it comes to buying any led fixture. Manufacturers can make all the claims they want about having a full spectrum unit.
Proof is in the pudding. I need to see the fixtures run for more then just a couple months and with a variety of different coral before I would commit some serious money to another fixture.

As for my fixture, it's a turd... Something is definitely missing from the spectrum. I have no other way to explain the growth or lack there of with some of my sps. Shading aside.
The only thing to do now is to supplement my very expensive turd. :thumbdown

 

[Aqualund]

For now, I would take a wait and see approach when it comes to buying any led fixture. Manufacturers can make all the claims they want about having a full spectrum unit.
Proof is in the pudding. I need to see the fixtures run for more then just a couple months and with a variety of different coral before I would commit some serious money to another fixture.

As for my fixture, it's a turd... Something is definitely missing from the spectrum. I have no other way to explain the growth or lack there of with some of my sps. Shading aside.
The only thing to do now is to supplement my very expensive turd. :thumbdown

Dont worry, I'm in the same boat. Thought my Ecorays were the shiznit 2 years ago. Well that was a waste.

 

[rogerwilco357]

I have been thinking of buying an led unit with prices coming down finally but everytime I gear up to pull the trigger another new and improved unit comes out so I guess i will stay with the Powermodules. That is until the new and improved unit drops in price.

 

[heritage]

Dont worry, I'm in the same boat. Thought my Ecorays were the shiznit 2 years ago. Well that was a waste.

Yeah, it would be a lot easier to let it go if it were just one fixture, but three really sucks.
Anyway, I ordered my new bulbs for supplement and also ordered some new ones for my t5 fixture to run over the tank, at least untill I get the time to hang the other fixtures.
I may run the t5 for a while, just to see how the corals react.

I have been thinking of buying an led unit with prices coming down finally but everytime I gear up to pull the trigger another new and improved unit comes out so I guess i will stay with the Powermodules. That is until the new and improved unit drops in price.

And I almost went with the ati fixtures before I decided to go led. I hemmed and hauled for a month.

 

[asid61]

You've hit the nail on the head with that one. In my DIY LED rig I run one of the more popular drivers (basically the power supply) made by Mean Well. And they don't even publish MBTF times, just a 2 year warrenty. And that in itself says something. The LEDs might last for 10 years, but I'd wager dollars to doughnuts that most drivers are going to fail WAY in advance of that. Particular because they get warm. And heat is the death of electronic circuitry.

Otherwise, why don't my drivers have a 5 of 10 year warranty? Bottom line, IMO LED users that think they've got a 10+ year fixture are kidding themselves.

Leds themselves are proven to last a long time, usually around 50k hours before dropping to 70% of their initial output.
A 2 year warranty is a lot less than how long they should last. But as stated, you can't judge a fixture by its warranty. How long are MH ballasts warrantied for? How long do they usually last? Any well-made driver will last for many years.
The Meanwells that need to be plugged into the wall tend to get pretty warm, but the Meanwell LDD drivers don't even get warm. I run 3 leds from 12v with an LDD driver and I can't feel it get warm at all.

 

[jda]

I have an AquaMedic MH fixture that was made in 1999 - it is on right now with no issues.

It seems very apparent that LED fixtures will last longer than likely most will want to use them. Does anybody even use fixtures that were made in 2010? There are lots of people on here who have bought new LED fixtures since the last time that I changed my HQI bulbs.

 

[asid61]

I have an AquaMedic MH fixture that was made in 1999 - it is on right now with no issues.

It seems very apparent that LED fixtures will last longer than likely most will want to use them. Does anybody even use fixtures that were made in 2010? There are lots of people on here who have bought new LED fixtures since the last time that I changed my HQI bulbs.

I used a MH fixture for 6 months, then switched to led. I used a fixture made in 2011 for two years.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

I was about to buy a Pacific Sun Hyperion S2 fixture to replace my 4 Bulb T5 HO, but after stumbling on this thread, I don't know what I'm going to do. Ugh.

 

[jda]

Do the same thing that you would have always done... Figure out what you want to keep and see if there has been a critical mass of success at the level that you want to be with LEDs, and specifically those lights. They can probably work for a large variety of situations. The will also probably not work very well for some. Ultimately, goals and success is up to you, but don't rule them out, just do your homework extra well.

 

[ravi197699]

hey guys i have had led's only reef tank, they look great and shimmer but i had to switch back to metal halides so i have put together metal halide and led hybrid combo that is working out great for me i will post some pictures of my fixture it contains 2 150 20 k hqi and 100w cree multiple led puck with different color led's and 26" blue led's to add more kick of blue to metal halide i am very happy with color combination and coral growth and colors ....

 

[MrIcky]

Reading this (on the shadowing issues), it's interesting to me that many of the European led set ups I see featured in Coral and other places don't have optics. They don't shy away from using large arrays of 1 watt LEDs which gets derided on US-centric boards. IIRC, Pacific Sun and Mitras don't use focusing lenses either, or if they do they are the on die style which still give a very wide pattern. I remember the ecoxotic fixtures didn't have a lens, but instead had a reflector trough so it was a very wide pattern front to back. They gave a tank an appearance very similar to t5s where the tank was bathed in light.

Maybe the fight for PAR bragging rights has hurt the overall design and progress. If you have a deeper tank, the solution pre-led was more bulbs and higher watts. Maybe that's still a better solution than 40 degree optics.

 

[nynick]

The way I see it is that the better shimmer you have the more shadowing issues you will have. You can add huge reflectors to MH and get less shimmer and shadowing. You can spread out the LEDs for a similar effect.

I have no problems with shadowing on my LED units and also pretty crappy shimmer. Next time around I am going multichip for the massive shimmer and also shadowing. I have some Mushroom colonies that would love a little shadow.

I can see that if you are heavily into light loving SPS you might run into problems here if using multi or bunched up chips in a unit that can not be directed or moved easily. On the other hand, shadow is very important for a great looking tank. It adds deepth and makes all the bright areas pop.

If you ever took art history (or just art) classes you are sure to have had a teacher jabbering away about the importance negative space. That goes for reeftanks too I believe. There is more to them than just being an underwater greenhouse.

 

[heritage]

The way I see it is that the better shimmer you have the more shadowing issues you will have. You can add huge reflectors to MH and get less shimmer and shadowing. You can spread out the LEDs for a similar effect.

I have no problems with shadowing on my LED units and also pretty crappy shimmer. Next time around I am going multichip for the massive shimmer and also shadowing. I have some Mushroom colonies that would love a little shadow.

I can see that if you are heavily into light loving SPS you might run into problems here if using multi or bunched up chips in a unit that can not be directed or moved easily. On the other hand, shadow is very important for a great looking tank. It adds deepth and makes all the bright areas pop.

If you ever took art history (or just art) classes you are sure to have had a teacher jabbering away about the importance negative space. That goes for reeftanks too I believe. There is more to them than just being an underwater greenhouse.

Couldn't agree more. At least with my fixture, if they would have used another row of leds and spread them out using most of the surface area of the fixture, then angled the last two rows in, say 15 to 20 degrees it might look pretty awesome and it would most likely take care of the weird shadow effect on the sps.
Maybe wider optics would help, not sure but I think there 75 now.

 

[MrIcky]

I agree. I always preferred the look of MH to T5 for that reason.

Kessil has a rotating arm that they use for their 'horticultural' applications. If you had the right sized tank and inclination, that would be interesting to try.

 

[Allentown]

I had wondered about that MrIcky. Even figured I could just manually swing my kessils a few inches to the right or left every few days to accompli this. An automatic arm would be very darn cool....

 

[AcroporAddict]

The amount of shimmering you have is also related to how much surface agitation you have.

 

[firebirdude]

After 100s of hours of reading and nearly a G into a custom LED setup (no optics FYI), and about 2 years of use, I gave up on them (officially about 2 years ago). Went with MH. Tank is loving it. LEDs will surely have their place in this hobby, but they're just WAY WAY too new. Everyone claims to know the specific spectrum corals like and the brightness needed, etc, but look at all these replies of unsatisfied users. Nuff said. We're all just guinea pigs right now. No thank you. I probably won't touch them again regardless of what happens in the next 10 years.

 

[Aqualund]

After 100s of hours of reading and nearly a G into a custom LED setup (no optics FYI), and about 2 years of use, I gave up on them (officially about 2 years ago). Went with MH. Tank is loving it. LEDs will surely have their place in this hobby, but they're just WAY WAY too new. Everyone claims to know the specific spectrum corals like and the brightness needed, etc, but look at all these replies of unsatisfied users. Nuff said. We're all just guinea pigs right now. No thank you. I probably won't touch them again regardless of what happens in the next 10 years.

Wow! Im surprised that even with individually controllable channels of 417,430,44-460,480-496,500-510, 540-590, 630,647, and 664nm, you still didnt have success with leds and had to hang them up. Glad you found a solution for your tank though.

 

[asid61]

After 100s of hours of reading and nearly a G into a custom LED setup (no optics FYI), and about 2 years of use, I gave up on them (officially about 2 years ago). Went with MH. Tank is loving it. LEDs will surely have their place in this hobby, but they're just WAY WAY too new. Everyone claims to know the specific spectrum corals like and the brightness needed, etc, but look at all these replies of unsatisfied users. Nuff said. We're all just guinea pigs right now. No thank you. I probably won't touch them again regardless of what happens in the next 10 years.

There is such a thing as "too much control". You would have done better with a Reef Breeders Value.
And the "unsatisfied users" tend to put their leds too high or use outdated fixtures. Few full spectrum fixtures are ranted against. Take the Radion Pro; almost no bad reviews on that one.