Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

ReefingWerewolf said:
So I am in the process of planning out my 75 gallon reef tank. (keep in mind nothing is set in stone this is purely planning) and here is what I am thinking for lighting.

two 250 watt metal halide's that run from 7:00 am to 7:00 pm
four t5ho tht run from 6:30 am to 6:30 pm and two t5ho that run from 6:15 to 6:15
6 retrofitted cree royal blue led's that run from 6:10 am to 6:10 pm
4 moonlight led's that run from 6:10 pm to 6:10 am

I hope to find a cheap 75 gallon drilled aquarium on creaglist during the next few months and find some used metal halides and t5's to retrofit into the hood.

I am not sure on my budget yet but I am trying to keep it cost effective, so craigslist here I come!
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I think most folks run their brightest light (the 250 W MH in your case) "in the middle" of the lighting cycle, so something like this:

7 AM royal blue LEDs on (moonlights off)
8 AM T5s on
11 AM MHs on
3 PM MHs off
6 PM T5s off
7 PM royal blue LEDs off (moonlights on)

These are just example times.
 
kevin_austin said:
I think most folks run their brightest light (the 250 W MH in your case) "in the middle" of the lighting cycle, so something like this:

7 AM royal blue LEDs on (moonlights off)
8 AM T5s on
11 AM MHs on
3 PM MHs off
6 PM T5s off
7 PM royal blue LEDs off (moonlights on)

These are just example times.
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I think your schedule works better dan mine lolz, I may move everything back an hour though because I go to school at 7 and I want to see da tank before I leave :)
 
kevin_austin said:
I think most folks run their brightest light (the 250 W MH in your case) "in the middle" of the lighting cycle, so something like this:

7 AM royal blue LEDs on (moonlights off)
8 AM T5s on
11 AM MHs on
3 PM MHs off
6 PM T5s off
7 PM royal blue LEDs off (moonlights on)

These are just example times.
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literally 2 hours for royal blues a day? waste of time, $, and effort. Either skip the LEDs and just go for moonlights. They are usually plenty bright enough to illuminate the tank. The alternative is to scrap the moonlights and go with 4 dimmable royal blues. You won't get them past 10% or so for soft evening viewing and probably not past 5% for full moon middle of the night viewing. 10 Royal Blue LEDs in your build would be a complete waste for a couple of hours and you'd probably never get them past 25-30%. Your T5's and MH's are your light cycle.

I've had AI Sol Blues, Radions, MH, MH+T5, MHx3, and MHx3+LED over my sig tank.
 
ReefingWerewolf said:
Everyone has their own opinion lollll

So ditch all led's accept for moonlights??????
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Like I said, you'll get a unique viewing experience with those LEDs. You can't replace that with moonlights, because you don't want your polyps open all night (and stressed).

There is no comparison between corals under actinic lighting and corals under moonlight. Apples and oranges. They have nothing to do with each other (a red herring, if you will).

You can skip the LEDs, but you might be disappointed. Actually, I guess if you don't know what you are missing, you might not be disappointed. :)
 
MedRed said:
literally 2 hours for royal blues a day? waste of time, $, and effort. Either skip the LEDs and just go for moonlights. They are usually plenty bright enough to illuminate the tank. The alternative is to scrap the moonlights and go with 4 dimmable royal blues. You won't get them past 10% or so for soft evening viewing and probably not past 5% for full moon middle of the night viewing. 10 Royal Blue LEDs in your build would be a complete waste for a couple of hours and you'd probably never get them past 25-30%. Your T5's and MH's are your light cycle.

I've had AI Sol Blues, Radions, MH, MH+T5, MHx3, and MHx3+LED over my sig tank.
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Not at all and they'll offer the best viewing experience. Again, I don't know why you are pushing moonlights as a viewing experience. You can't make them bright enough to open up your polyps, and without the actinic lighting, you aren't going to see those fluourscent scenes that only the actinics can provide.

Alternately, your T5 can be all actinic, but you still won't get the pop of the royal blue LEDs.
 
Some people say no led some say yes...
I will definitely want 4 moonlight led's
How about 6 royal blue?

Remmember this is ontop of two 250 watt metal halides and 4 t5ho
 
ReefingWerewolf said:
Some people say no led some say yes...
I will definitely want 4 moonlight led's
How about 6 royal blue?

Remmember this is ontop of two 250 watt metal halides and 4 t5ho
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Yes, it will all be cummulative as you move towards "noon." However, again, I can stress enough that actinic lighting at night brings about an amazing aspect of a reef tank.

For the moonlights, just make sure they are low power and give your reef a chance to "rest."
 
Fredfish said:
Unlike LEDs are bad and MH/T5s are good?

A photon in a given energy state is a photon in a given energy state. It does not know or care what it came from. Blue light at 450 nm is blue light at 450 nm. Light/photons do not take on additional properties depending on their source.

There is nothing inherently better or worse about photons created by MH, T5 or LED.

This is the point nynick has tried to make repeatedly and I've been having fun with.
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Photosynthetic Efficiencies of LEDs: Results of Short Term Exposure to LED Lights

The radiometric power of a photon matters not in photosynthesis - a blue photon (with high radiometric power) will drive photosynthesis just as well as a photon of lesser energy (say, a red photon.) So, it would seem that the issue is settled. It is not. The adage 'a photon is a photon' is true when discussing light production by various light sources, but it is not correct when considering how different light wavelengths (or bandwidths) promote photosynthesis.
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Light produced from an LED is NOT the same as light produced from metal halide or fluorescent lighting. We know precious little about how symbiodinium differ in their reactions to light from LED sources as few if any scientific papers have yet to be written on the subject.

Most light we are familiar with comes from hot gases or hot pieces of metal that give off "excited" photons. The spectrum produced is broad in nature as the photons have many different wavelengths. That spectrum is not identical to the spectrum of sunlight, but it is broad in nature.

LEDs are Light Emitting Diodes. They use a microscopic "junction" called a PN junction. These "junctions" have a "band gap" or "forward energy gap". That "gap" determines the wavelength of the photon produced and does not change. LEDs by their nature produce photons of almost identical wavelength. LEDs do not produce a broad spectrum of wavelengths. In addition most dimming of LED light is done with Pulse Width Modulation. What that means is that the LED sends out a burst of maximum intensity for a fraction of a second and then turns completely off and the frequency at which that occurs determines the "brightness" of the LED. So imagine a fire hydrant that turns on for 1 second versus a sprinkler that runs for an hour. We don't know if symbiodinium react to the on/off fire hose the same as it does to a continuously running sprinkler.

Light is highly complex and comes in many many forms. It is a wave and it is a particle. It can be visible and it can be invisible. The point is LED light is NOT the same as metal halide light and we have little knowledge on how light from LEDs may or may not change the way symbiodinium react. Many advanced reefers have a LOT of experience in seeing real world differences in the way corals react to different light sources.

In the end this is a hobby and you should enjoy the light you prefer. I have tried LED and prefer metal halide.
 
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kevin_austin said:
Not at all and they'll offer the best viewing experience. Again, I don't know why you are pushing moonlights as a viewing experience. You can't make them bright enough to open up your polyps, and without the actinic lighting, you aren't going to see those fluourscent scenes that only the actinics can provide.

Alternately, your T5 can be all actinic, but you still won't get the pop of the royal blue LEDs.
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I don't think you have any experience with moonlights or with a variety of lighting in general. In no way would he need to have all T5 as actinic. One bulb would suffice. Moonlights are not all the same. Even one LED of the old Current USA moonlights was enough to illuminate my entire 34 Gallon. You are stuck on "open up your polyps." What's going to be closed? Zoas? The goal is to transition the lighting while still being able to view what is in the tank.

Checking your posts, I see you like to give advice, but there isn't a single picture of your tank anywhere. Do you mind sharing?
 
MedRed said:
I don't think you have any experience with moonlights or with a variety of lighting in general. In no way would he need to have all T5 as actinic. One bulb would suffice. Moonlights are not all the same. Even one LED of the old Current USA moonlights was enough to illuminate my entire 34 Gallon. You are stuck on "open up your polyps." What's going to be closed? Zoas? The goal is to transition the lighting while still being able to view what is in the tank.

Checking your posts, I see you like to give advice, but there isn't a single picture of your tank anywhere. Do you mind sharing?
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I installed my first moonlights 15 years ago. A 6 watt PC actinic bulb that I got from... can you guess where I got it? It was a popular retrofit provider back in the day. Since then I've used may different approaches to moonlight.

The point of moonlight is not to view everything in the tank. Search for "too much moonlight" and "The need to breathe." If you can see everything in your tank, your moonlights are too bright.

As for not showing my tank, you are engaging in another logical fallacy (which you seem to be good at). I'll let you figure out which one it is.

I think most people will agree with me on the too much light for moonlight issue. Also, those that have seen it will agree about providing LED royal blue viewing (or actinic viewing in general). So, put a cogent argument together or :debi:

p.s. What would someone do who wanted to remain anonymous and noticed an old account they had cast off from 2002?
 
ReefingWerewolf said:
Thank you for your advise! I guess it cant hurt to retrofit a few led's :)
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For moonlight, I would suggest one (yes, just one) of these:

http://www.amazon.com/TrueLumen-Lin...F8&qid=1401065133&sr=8-2&keywords=actinic+led

It should provide you with a very soft glow close to the light and dark corners. If you don't feel it is enough, they can be chained together serially. It is better (IMHO) to start off with less light and then add more if needed.

For actinic viewing, you could go with these:

http://www.amazon.com/TrueLumen-Aquatic-10-Inch-4-453nm-LED/dp/B003XXAE84

However, once you start to purchase several of these, the T5s, and the metal halides, you might be better off buying programmable Everlife fixtures with moonlight.

p.s. I purist will mention that moonlight isn't blue, but I like the look. :)
 
kevin_austin said:
For moonlight, I would suggest one (yes, just one) of these:

http://www.amazon.com/TrueLumen-Lin...F8&qid=1401065133&sr=8-2&keywords=actinic+led

It should provide you with a very soft glow close to the light and dark corners. If you don't feel it is enough, they can be chained together serially. It is better (IMHO) to start off with less light and then add more if needed.

For actinic viewing, you could go with these:

http://www.amazon.com/TrueLumen-Aquatic-10-Inch-4-453nm-LED/dp/B003XXAE84

However, once you start to purchase several of these, the T5s, and the metal halides, you might be better off buying programmable Everlife fixtures with moonlight.

p.s. I purist will mention that moonlight isn't blue, but I like the look. :)
Click to expand...

By the way, if you take my advice and it works out exactly the way I said it would, please let MedRed know. :uzi:
 
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