Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[d2mini]

The comparison of cost isn't too fair. The cost of led's, even expensive fixtures, is less than the cost of changing bulbs like you should every 6 months.

Also, the changing of color through the day could indeed be shown to be a positive thing, much better than metal halides. When we're talking about certain corals, not all corals are going to be surface dwellers that enjoy non-blue spectrums. It's a fact of the ocean and to pretend it doesn't matter isn't very realistic.

As far as the food analogy, that's all the arguments will ever be, analogies. There's really not been too much concrete research showing led's are that much different than any other light source. The tech is getting better every day. Metal halides and older fixtures, well, I don't believe they're the focus of much new research.

Metal halides and older fixtures are just a dead horse people keep beating when tooting their horn against led's..

LOL, ummm... 6 months?! Radiums last AT LEAST twice that long when run on the correct ballast.
The cost of my entire mh/led setup which replaced 4 radion pros cost just a little more than one radion pro.

As I said, I have T5's for dusk/dawn.
There's just no reason for the uber slow ramp up and down.
You can reason that its closer to nature, but I can tell you from personal experience that is has ZERO benefit in our tanks.
Running the MH for 6 hours and the T5s for 10-12 is plenty of spectrum shift.

I ran radion pros for two years before switching back.
You can see the pics documented in my build thread to see the DRASTIC improvement in a very short time after switching back to MH/T5.

Sorry, but the dead horse is those trying to convince themselves that the gobs of money they spent on fancy led fixtures is actually worth it.
If you are stuck in a tiered pricing structure in california or somewhere where electricity is insanely expensive, THEN i can see an argument for LED. And even then, it's a compromise where you are forced to choose with your wallet and not what's best for your coral.

 

[sirreal63]

The comparison of cost isn't too fair. The cost of led's, even expensive fixtures, is less than the cost of changing bulbs like you should every 6 months.

Also, the changing of color through the day could indeed be shown to be a positive thing, much better than metal halides. When we're talking about certain corals, not all corals are going to be surface dwellers that enjoy non-blue spectrums. It's a fact of the ocean and to pretend it doesn't matter isn't very realistic.

As far as the food analogy, that's all the arguments will ever be, analogies. There's really not been too much concrete research showing led's are that much different than any other light source. The tech is getting better every day. Metal halides and older fixtures, well, I don't believe they're the focus of much new research.

Metal halides and older fixtures are just a dead horse people keep beating when tooting their horn against led's..

Wow, just wow. I am going to guess that you have not read this thread, or decided that you know way more than the large number of experienced reefers who have shared their actual experience in is thread.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

d2mini, I would believe more of what you said if just about every manufacturer out there wasn't working on led's.

Also, you say it's better for corals?
Why is it then I've seen absolutely magnificent tanks with led's over them?

As for the spectrum shifting between mh's and t5's, I'll give you that about covers it, but there IS still some spectrum inbetween and on the ends those bulbs cannot do.
Unless you're using 10-12k mh's (unlikely) then there's a lot of the lower spectrum missing, or if you have 10k mh's and 20k t5's, you're still missing a lot inbetween.

We can speculate all day long, but the fact of the matter is, there's amazing tanks out there with led's. There's also amazing tanks with mh's. There's more with mh's because led's have not been around that long.

Overall, you can't say mh's have something led's don't. If that were true, there would be zero TOTM's that have led's.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Wow, just wow. I am going to guess that you have not read this thread, or decided that you know way more than the large number of experienced reefers who have shared their actual experience in is thread.

No, I don't pretend to know anything more. The facts are out there.

But I can see you don't care about facts and would rather troll.
(but perhaps you're right, I've never seen any amazing tanks with LED's.. :uhoh3

 

[medic6695]

I have made the change form 2 Hydra's on a 75 gallons to 2x250W and my electricity bill stayed around the same. With the LED's, I had my 300w heater running 24/7. Now, if he's running 2 hours during the night, that's good... So more watts on lightning but way less on heating.

And now with the winter, the MH's helps to heat my living room

 

[jda]

Did you just think of 10K halides and 20K T5s to LED chips? You might be right, where is the 14K range, or the 16K... just 10K and 20K there. Go and take a look at a graph for either, the one bulb will output from 300s to 800s. You probably ought to stop, for now, until you do some homework... or better yet, give them a try like nearly everybody who is trying to tell you that they are not the same.

 

[medic6695]

LOL, ummm... 6 months?! Radiums last AT LEAST twice that long when run on the correct ballast.
The cost of my entire mh/led setup which replaced 4 radion pros cost just a little more than one radion pro.

As I said, I have T5's for dusk/dawn.
There's just no reason for the uber slow ramp up and down.
You can reason that its closer to nature, but I can tell you from personal experience that is has ZERO benefit in our tanks.
Running the MH for 6 hours and the T5s for 10-12 is plenty of spectrum shift.

I ran radion pros for two years before switching back.
You can see the pics documented in my build thread to see the DRASTIC improvement in a very short time after switching back to MH/T5.

Sorry, but the dead horse is those trying to convince themselves that the gobs of money they spent on fancy led fixtures is actually worth it.
If you are stuck in a tiered pricing structure in california or somewhere where electricity is insanely expensive, THEN i can see an argument for LED. And even then, it's a compromise where you are forced to choose with your wallet and not what's best for your coral.

Amen

 

[sirreal63]

No, I don't pretend to know anything more. The facts are out there.

But I can see you don't care about facts and would rather troll.
(but perhaps you're right, I've never seen any amazing tanks with LED's.. :uhoh3

So you have not read the thread?

 

[Wazzel]

The only dead horse is people thinking only one way works, there way. All three systems work when properly operated. Lots of the evaluation of "works" is visual observations which may or may not be biased. Often times it just boils down to personal preference.

There really is no reason to bash Mh they are tried and true with lots of history of success. Same for T-5, tho the history is not quite as long. LED is there it is just taking longer to get the operating worked out. With all the differences in the fixtures it is not near as easy for us as a hobby community to sort it out. Some of the features of led is probably one of the things that is slowing it down. To many options on how to run them give lots of opportunity to introduce error.

As long as you as the reef keep are happy with your tank, share what is working.

 

[dwebster86]

The only dead horse is people thinking only one way works, there way. All three systems work when properly operated. Lots of the evaluation of "works" is visual observations which may or may not be biased. Often times it just boils down to personal preference.

There really is no reason to bash Mh they are tried and true with lots of history of success. Same for T-5, tho the history is not quite as long. LED is there it is just taking longer to get the operating worked out. With all the differences in the fixtures it is not near as easy for us as a hobby community to sort it out. Some of the features of led is probably one of the things that is slowing it down. To many options on how to run them give lots of opportunity to introduce error.

As long as you as the reef keep are happy with your tank, share what is working.

Definitely agree

 

[ghostman]

The only dead horse is people thinking only one way works, there way. All three systems work when properly operated. Lots of the evaluation of "works" is visual observations which may or may not be biased. Often times it just boils down to personal preference.

There really is no reason to bash Mh they are tried and true with lots of history of success. Same for T-5, tho the history is not quite as long. LED is there it is just taking longer to get the operating worked out. With all the differences in the fixtures it is not near as easy for us as a hobby community to sort it out. Some of the features of led is probably one of the things that is slowing it down. To many options on how to run them give lots of opportunity to introduce error.

As long as you as the reef keep are happy with your tank, share what is working.

+1. I'm with you Wazzel. I've grown corals with MH, T5, and LED. Each has its pros and cons. While all methods did work for me, there was one option that was clearly the BEST- that being MH. Best growth, best color, least problems. I think that a lot posts are from people who believe the new method is the best. In this case, that may or may not be true. I wouldn't take advice from someone who has only used one type of lights. It's great to get opinions from people who have run MH, T5, LED, even VHO, and find out what they prefer and why. Throwing out anecdotal data about energy usage, coverage, and costs muddies the waters for all.

 

[Wazzel]

What is kind of funny is LED was not in the plan for my current tank until a friend of mine that works at Steinhart suggested I throw the Al hydra52 into my consideration. He got one to evaluate and was impressed. After some digging it looked like it would be as good as the others and it was going to be sexy with my rimless cube so I figured why not. I was actually leaning to T-5 since my last 2 tanks were mh-Vho and I fought heat on both of them real bad. Hot and humid south can be tough for evaporative cooling. My first tank was Vho only and I had a fairly good run with that on a mixed reef. So anyway. That's my story.

 

[rtparty]

So you have not read the thread?

There's no way to reason with the guy. I've asked multiple times how long he has had LEDs and he won't answer.

A few hundred posts ago I said that this thread and topic had a reoccurring theme: new users (and a very few experienced users) tout how great LEDs are and push them down people's throats. Then after they finally accept that the LEDs aren't the greatest, they switch back or just accept their tank.

Just my opinion though

 

[Uglyman]

I have been lurking on this thread for a while seeing everyone's opinion on this subject and thought I would throw in mine finally. I have been running a 4ft mixed reef (sps heavy)for 8 years and have had t5 for 2 years and it worked well but getting globes in my area was a pain, plus expensive.

So I switched to leds (Maxspect G2 160w X 2) which I ran for nearly six years. The leds were great for the first 3 years then slowly I noticed colour loss and reduced growth and I lost a lot of sps to RTN and STN . Also any yellow sps when I first setup the leds strangely went green and I had an inability to grow stags . So at the 5 year mark I tested the par on both units and found that it was pathetic, 80par just 8 inches below the water.

Then I had a chance to switch to a metal halide unit and all I can say is wow, within 3 weeks colour started coming back and growth took off at an incredible rate. Now 4 months in I have no RTN/STN and colours are looking great, also all my previously green?yellow corals are now actually yellow. I have stag frags that have sat on my rockwork and never grown or coloured up now growing at a stunning rate and turning blue and green instead of dark brown.

So to go from t5 to led to metal halide I must admit I have given them all a try and each has good points and bad but at the moment I am liking halides on the grounds that they keep my corals healthy, colourfull and growing well and that's all that matters to me.

 

[alton]

Changing MH lamps every 6 months would be a waste of resources! My Radiums in the past average 16 to 18 months with a drop in 10% of PAR and Intensity. I check them monthly with a PAR and foot candle meter. I have had one that lasted 24+ months, and one that only lasted one year. I have had two that where not up to par brand new so I sent them back.

 

[ghostman]

Changing MH lamps every 6 months would be a waste of resources! My Radiums in the past average 16 to 18 months with a drop in 10% of PAR and Intensity. I check them monthly with a PAR and foot candle meter. I have had one that lasted 24+ months, and one that only lasted one year. I have had two that where not up to par brand new so I sent them back.

+1 Alton. I don't know of anybody that changes MH that frequently, or thinks they should. It's an misinformed comment raised by LED supporters to justify the high initial cost of LEDS and them not having to change bulbs. In real life, the opposite is true as LED owners can upgrade each year to differnt pucks/ greater spectrum and actually spend more money than for a new MH bulb. How many people stick with sols or gen 1 radions? Some do, but most likely due to the high cost of upgrading.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Alright guys, I've had led's for years now and I'm not just blowing smoke. Also, non-led bulbs do shift spectrum not only par. That's always been my reasoning for 6 month change outs. Don't you care about your corals? Lol...

Anyways, you use whatever you want. I'm not going to argue over it.
I saw the thread, shared my reasons for never going back to mh/t5's.

Obviously this is just a pitty party thread you guys are a part of because you regret the led fixtures you chose, and no matter what anyone says they're wrong and you're right.

Happy feeding!

 

[Wazzel]

+1 Alton. I don't know of anybody that changes MH that frequently, or thinks they should. It's an misinformed comment raised by LED supporters to justify the high initial cost of LEDS and them not having to change bulbs. In real life, the opposite is true as LED owners can upgrade each year to differnt pucks/ greater spectrum and actually spend more money than for a new MH bulb. How many people stick with sols or gen 1 radions? Some do, but most likely due to the high cost of upgrading.

Changing MH lamps every 6 months is silly. There is lots of selective evaluation of the cost of the systems on both sides.

 

[alton]

Alright guys, I've had led's for years now and I'm not just blowing smoke. Also, non-led bulbs do shift spectrum not only par. That's always been my reasoning for 6 month change outs. Don't you care about your corals? Lol...

Anyways, you use whatever you want. I'm not going to argue over it.
I saw the thread, shared my reasons for never going back to mh/t5's.

Obviously this is just a pitty party thread you guys are a part of because you regret the led fixtures you chose, and no matter what anyone says they're wrong and you're right.

Happy feeding!

Unless you had a meter to prove your point you are definitely blowing smoke! It has been 10 years since I lost a coral to light, which is when I started using meters. I have a good friend who has and continues to use LEDs and his corals do fine but he started with SOL Blues, went to Vegas, and now to Hydras. Spent a bunch more than me on lamps and usage. Two of his Vegas are less than two years old and half the leds are out. He was told he can upgrade for $200. I have a problem with a fixture that advertises 10 years and comes with a 1 year warranty.

 

[Wazzel]

If I do not get 3 years out of my hydra52 I will probably not go back to LED. Since I did not want a hood a nice pendant MH fixture was what I used in my cost work up and the pay back was just over 2 years.