Anyone use limewater (kalk) via ATO?

[Tswifty]

I just installed my ATO unit, and was wondering if there is a way I can maintain my Ca & Alk levels via my top off water?

Currently I use ESV 2-Part for maintaining my levels, but would like to get away from the nightly dosing if possible.

I've never used Kalk before, and was wondering if anyone would be able to explain their setup to me?

Also, what are the pro's & con's to using kalkwasser versus 2-part?

Here's my ATO... It's hooked to an 18g Rubbermaid reservoir.

Thanks,

T.J.

 

[serpentman]

Personally, I like the convenience of a kalk reactor or reservoir hooked to a dosing pump. That way, you can run 24/7 or on a timer with very little chance of overdosing.

My evaporation rates vary and can be around 5g a day. I would be concerned about that much kalk being dosed on my system when my ATO kicks on.

 

[Dtip]

Kalk is messy, or at least messier than 2parts. Lines that dose it may need to be cleaned more often, can clog, and so on. Most people that use it seem to ultimately opt for some sort of automated mixer to make life easier.

 

[Sk8r]

sure, just dump about a quarter cannister of Mrs. Wages into that tub, stir once, and put the lid down. BUT put your pump on a pedestal to be sure it doesn't suck undissolved kalk.
If you have a super-high evap rate you might want to use less kalk. But a gallon a day from a 54g is about right.
I have a 300.00 kalk reactor. Bad investment. It was always screwing up. I use a 32g trash can with a 1/4 locline reduced from a maxijet 1200's 1/2 inch output, no clog problems a little snip doesn't fix---off a 75.00 autotopoff.com float switch. I've found a still reservoir much less trouble, and way less expense. I'm going to sell that reactor.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178237#post13178237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by serpentman
Personally, I like the convenience of a kalk reactor or reservoir hooked to a dosing pump. That way, you can run 24/7 or on a timer with very little chance of overdosing.

My evaporation rates vary and can be around 5g a day. I would be concerned about that much kalk being dosed on my system when my ATO kicks on.

I guess I'll have to check my evaporation rate... My tank is a 90g with a 30g sump/fuge...

I believe it usually evaporates around 2 gallons a day. I'll have to check though.

I was looking at something like the LiterMeter III for dosing 2-part, but was wondering if I would be able to make something work with the ATO.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178266#post13178266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dtip
Kalk is messy, or at least messier than 2parts. Lines that dose it may need to be cleaned more often, can clog, and so on. Most people that use it seem to ultimately opt for some sort of automated mixer to make life easier.

The 2-part is definitely a clean, easy way to dose the tank... I just would like to get away from the daily dosing.

If I would go out of town for a week, it would be nice to know that I wouldn't have to have my g/f worry about dosing (or forgetting to dose) the tank everyday.

I've seen some of the kalk reactors... wouldn't placing a powerhead in the ATO reservoir achieve the same effect?

 

[Sk8r]

My ato pump IS the kalk reservoir pump, triggered by evaporation. Used same maxijet going on two years, no clog, no problem. If there was, overnight in vinegar would fix it.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178270#post13178270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
sure, just dump about a quarter cannister of Mrs. Wages into that tub, stir once, and put the lid down. BUT put your pump on a pedestal to be sure it doesn't suck undissolved kalk.
If you have a super-high evap rate you might want to use less kalk. But a gallon a day from a 54g is about right.

That's what I was thinking about doing... but how do you know how much Kalk powder to add though?

I'm currently using an Aqualifter pump for the ATO.

 

[mike660r]

Do you have a large calcium demand in your tank now? If not, just stick with the two part. You won't want to dump a bunch of kalk in that large tub. You won't get the full affect from it once it all settles to the bottom. I only use a cup at a time in kalk my reactor. I have found that if you add more than a cup at a time it clogs the circulation pump and ruins the impeller. Also the kalk tends to not help in raising your PH as well once it has sat in water for a long period of time. I use mine for two purposes, calcium supplement and to help keep the PH above 7.9 in the winter months when the house is closed up. I have used the economical method of using a 5 gal bucket, a powerhead and a piece of hose with a flow knot in it in the past. A GEO kalk reactor is in place now and it works great. Since I have around 400 gal of water flowing through my system. I am able to use a small powerhead to feed fresh RO water into the kalk reactor via my top off controller. The dosing pump ran all the time trying to keep up with 5 gal of evaporation a day. I usually recommend that people purchase a kalk reactor first. Then if you still can't keep up with the demand of calcium go by a calcium reactor. The reason I say that is because a calcium reactor can and will degrade the PH of your tank in the closed window periods. So, you will need it down the road.

 

[Esquare]

I switched to Kalk not too long ago to help keep my ph up (my systems cal demands aren’t at a point yet to need it for additional cal). Initially, I was using an Aqua Medic dosing pump from a still reservoir. This method worked but wasn’t as stable (cal, alk and ph bounced around) as I would like so I made a DIY kalk reactor and have been Very pleased with the system in results, ease and stability. I’ll try and take some pics and post later.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178520#post13178520 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mike660r
Do you have a large calcium demand in your tank now? If not, just stick with the two part. You won't want to dump a bunch of kalk in that large tub. You won't get the full affect from it once it all settles to the bottom. I only use a cup at a time in kalk my reactor. I have found that if you add more than a cup at a time it clogs the circulation pump and ruins the impeller. Also the kalk tends to not help in raising your PH as well once it has sat in water for a long period of time. I use mine for two purposes, calcium supplement and to help keep the PH above 7.9 in the winter months when the house is closed up. I have used the economical method of using a 5 gal bucket, a powerhead and a piece of hose with a flow knot in it in the past. A GEO kalk reactor is in place now and it works great. Since I have around 400 gal of water flowing through my system. I am able to use a small powerhead to feed fresh RO water into the kalk reactor via my top off controller. The dosing pump ran all the time trying to keep up with 5 gal of evaporation a day. I usually recommend that people purchase a kalk reactor first. Then if you still can't keep up with the demand of calcium go by a calcium reactor. The reason I say that is because a calcium reactor can and will degrade the PH of your tank in the closed window periods. So, you will need it down the road.

No I don't believe there is a large demand. I am just looking to minimize some of the daily tasks.

It's not "a pain" for me to dose the 2-part by any means, but I do forget to dose it occaisionally, and it would be nice if I could set up a system that would keep my tank levels stable for a week or so at a time.

 

[Sk8r]

It's about 2 tsp per gallon of ro/di for full saturation. Any undissolved will fall to the bottom and dissolve as more fresh water arrives. Probably not good to let it pile up forever, as Mike 660r says...You do need to elevate your pump. Pure kalk into a tank is a pita, so arrange pump to move only the filmy water. Overdose doesn't hurt much but your ph (kalk is 12) and you can fix that with bar soda water, but much better not to dust everything in tank with white powder.

if you want to go away for a week, sub a 32g Brute tub for that bin. BUT test---test alk/cal/mg weekly. And you must of course 'set' your alk/cal level by hand-dosing. Kalk alone doesn't raise it efficiently at all. It just maintains.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178544#post13178544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Esquare
I switched to Kalk not too long ago to help keep my ph up (my systems cal demands aren’t at a point yet to need it for additional cal). Initially, I was using an Aqua Medic dosing pump from a still reservoir. This method worked but wasn’t as stable (cal, alk and ph bounced around) as I would like so I made a DIY kalk reactor and have been Very pleased with the system in results, ease and stability. I’ll try and take some pics and post later.

What was causing the levels to bounce around?

That'd be great if you could post some pictures.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178564#post13178564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
It's about 2 tsp per gallon of ro/di for full saturation. Any undissolved will fall to the bottom and dissolve as more fresh water arrives. Probably not good to let it pile up forever, as Mike 660r says...You do need to elevate your pump. Pure kalk into a tank is a pita, so arrange pump to move only the filmy water. Overdose doesn't hurt much but your ph (kalk is 12) and you can fix that with bar soda water, but much better not to dust everything in tank with white powder.

if you want to go away for a week, sub a 32g Brute tub for that bin. BUT test---test alk/cal/mg weekly. And you must of course 'set' your alk/cal level by hand-dosing. Kalk alone doesn't raise it efficiently at all. It just maintains.

If I would run this for a trial period... what's the chance of me completely wrecking everything in the tank?

The 2-part has worked great thus far, but I'm always looking for ways to decrease the amount of daily interactions with the tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178564#post13178564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
as Mike 660r says...You do need to elevate your pump. Pure kalk into a tank is a pita, so arrange pump to move only the filmy water.

The pump pulls water via some rigid tubing that extends down into the ATO reservoir... I could probably glue a holder into the bottom of the container to keep the tube opening off the bottom.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178564#post13178564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
And you must of course 'set' your alk/cal level by hand-dosing. Kalk alone doesn't raise it efficiently at all. It just maintains.

That's what I had to do initially with the 2-part... Set my levels with other additives, then maintain them with the 2-part.

 

[Esquare]

Here are some quick pics. The ATO is a Tunze Osmowhoseamawhatsis and the kalk reactor is stirred by a MJ400 in the base.

 

[Esquare]

I think it was a combination of things causing my ph to fluctuate.

Closed house due to a/c
Fixed by venting the Skimmer directly to outside air. Also, a mesh mod to my ER RS-100 both increased my air flow and seemed to incorporate the outside air better as it raised my ph a little more than just the venting.

Kalk dosed base on ph level
Setup via code on my AC3 and an Aqua Medic dosing pump. I don’t think this was the best way to set it up. Since switching to the Reactor via ATO it has been great.

PH probe replacement
I had been having a problem with my ph bouncing and felt the Neptune probe connected to my AC3 wasn’t doing a very good job (recalibrated it often, sometimes twice a week) so I replaced it with a refillable double junction probe. The New probe had been reading .2 higher than the old and the ph barely fluctuates .07 in a 24 hour period.

 

[serpentman]

It can definitely be done via topoff. It really comes down to acceptable risk. Personally, my topoff has gone on the fritz on a couple occasions. Once, I moved the hose and created a siphon from my reservoir and the other a float switch stuck. Each time, I was lucky as it only added a few extra gallons of RO water.

One idea, if you don't want to go the Litermeter route, I highly recommend the JBJ ATO. It will automatically shut off after a few minutes of continuous running so it won't overdue nuke your system.

 

[Tswifty]

I'm using the TopDose system I picked up from Kevin... It has a timer function on it (although I'm unsure of the length of time before shutoff), and I have the second float switch reversed, so it will shut off the pump if the water reaches that height.

It seems like I just need to be concerned about the Kalk dissolving, and also how much is being topped off per day.

Is there a "general rule of thumb" as to how much Kalkwasser you can add per day... err well... I guess it's something that would be system dependent, and I'll just have to watch my levels closely for the first few weeks?

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13178680#post13178680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Esquare
Here are some quick pics. The ATO is a Tunze Osmowhoseamawhatsis and the kalk reactor is stirred by a MJ400 in the base.

Very nice... Now I have a stupid question...

How exactly does a kalkwasser reactor work? (prob should've asked that one first) :lol:

Is there water constantly moving through the reactor adding kalk to the tank 24/7... or does it only dose in intervals?

 

[serpentman]

A Kalk reactor is a chamber that allows your RO water to become supersaturated with Kalk before adding to your tank. Most have a stirring mechanism (pump or magnetic stirrer) to keep kalk from solidifying. However, many people profess that this does little to add more kalk to the the water.