Apex ato

[Tank2379]

Well I had it at Min Time 01:00 Then Off that seem to work well to- I am planning on dosing Kalk in the meant time my tank is cycling so I want ot get the kinks out now if I can- Sorry not trying to Hijack a Thread but I just want to amke sure I'm setup correctly

 

[swearint]

HHHMMMM... I have mine topping off everytime water Evaps and when the switch is low enough to trigger then fills back up

Set OFF
If Switchx2_1 CLOSED Then ON
Min Time 005:00 Then OFF

The main issue with this is that there is no redundancy. If the switch fails, or gets stuck in the CLOSED position, the ATO will run indefinitely. The OP is using two floats, so there is one backup. The method I recommended adds an additional level of safety.

Todd

 

[acasp4]

HHHMMMM... I have mine topping off everytime water Evaps and when the switch is low enough to trigger then fills back up

Set OFF
If Switchx2_1 CLOSED Then ON
Min Time 005:00 Then OFF

The proble I had with that is my tanks evap rate is about 3 gallons a day and I didnt want to burn out my ATO pump buy turning on a hundred times a day. so you might want to raise your min time to like what russM suggested for me. just a thought

 

[acasp4]

Cool. Todd's method is overall a much more more elegant and IMO, a better method, but adding the Min Time is the simplest way of doing what you want.

I am currently working on setting it up like tods Todd's you can never have to many failsafes :rollface:

 

[Tank2379]

So what would be a good setup I am only working with 1 switch for now until I get another in the future- Like I stated before I want to dose Kalk as well so ATO will be my way of dosing CA,ALK... If any one has a good setup that I can use this will be helpful thanks

Frankie

 

[Hextall]

Can I just increase the min time statement in my ATO outlet so that I'm not running my ato pump so often? Here's my code now:

[ATO]
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet LowFloat = ON Then ON
If Outlet UpperFloat = ON Then OFF
If Outlet FWFloat = OFF Then OFF
Min Time 005:00 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON


lowfloat = on means I need water
upperfloat = on means I'm overfilling topoff water
fwfloat = on means I'm very low in my ato reservoir

I also have an ATO_Limit virtual outlet, but haven't incorporated it into my ato (only my email warning). I doubt I'll have 10 minutes worth of topping off to do, but I could increase this if there's problems increasing the min time statement, right?

[ATO_Limit]
Set OFF
If Outlet LowFloat = ON Then ON
Defer 010:00 Then ON


Could I just add in the ATO code at the end the following:
If Outlet ATO_Limit = ON then OFF

 

[swearint]

So what would be a good setup I am only working with 1 switch for now until I get another in the future- Like I stated before I want to dose Kalk as well so ATO will be my way of dosing CA,ALK... If any one has a good setup that I can use this will be helpful thanks

Frankie

Once you add kalk to your setup, add the following after the switch statement:

If pH > 8.4 Then OFF

This will provide additional failsafe and shut down kalk if the pH increases too much.

Todd

 

[swearint]

Can I just increase the min time statement in my ATO outlet so that I'm not running my ato pump so often?

Yes.

I doubt I'll have 10 minutes worth of topping off to do, but I could increase this if there's problems increasing the min time statement, right?

Yes, take a look at the Graph of your ATO outlet to get an idea of how much you are adding over a specific time period.

Could I just add in the ATO code at the end the following:
If Outlet ATO_Limit = ON then OFF

Yes.

Todd

 

[Tank2379]

The method that I use is to create a virtual outlet that limits the time/duration that the ATO can run.

[ATO_Allow]
OSC 000:00/030:00/450:00 Then ON

[ATO]
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 CLOSED Then ON
If Outlet ATO_Allow = OFF Then OFF

ATO_Allow is ON for 30 minutes out of every 8 hours, otherwise OFF. So, when ON, the floatswitch is alowed to run the ATO as needed. This basically 'saves up' all the little ATO bumps and runs it for the equivalent amount during the time slot. This also acts as a limited failsafe. In the event that the float somehow fails CLOSED, the ATO can only run for 30 minutes every eight hours.

Todd

Todd are you using 1 switch in this setup?

 

[swearint]

Not exactly. I use a float switch to monitor the normal sump level. Then for a high level backup, I use an independent (i.e. not tied to the Apex) level switch installed between the EB8 outlet and my RO solenoid.

Todd

 

[acasp4]

i would get a safty switch ASPA!!! And I would set up your ATO like (swearint) thats what i did because it is the safest if you dont wanna do that put your min time as 240:00. I dose kalk in my ato as well but it takes alot of fine tuneing and testing to find the right ratio of kalk and RO. also you should put a "if ph >8.40 then off" so you dont blow up your tank

 

[Tank2379]

I'm confused--:sad1:

 

[swearint]

I'm confused--:sad1:

Can you be more specific?

Todd

 

[Tank2379]

Well with my previous ATO settings I don't know how to set it up for failsafe if I am only running 1 switch here is my setup, now what should I add or Tweak so I know how you set this up in my settings. Now I am a little worried becasue my water level rose about an inch above the switch but ATO has been off

Set OFF
If Switchx2_1 CLOSED Then ON
Min Time 001:00 Then OFF

Please advise how I should have a single ATO with Kalk be set up

Sorry just new to Apex and the Lango.... Any help will be appreciated

Thanks
Frankie

 

[acasp4]

there are no failsafes when your only useing one switch. you need to have a second switch about 3-4 inchs higher than the first one. when you have the second switch one ther you need to program it to be "if switch 2 on then off" this way if switch one fails to shut of your ATO pump the second switch will when the water rises to it. note the smaller diameter hose you run from your ATO to yor tank the more control it has in putting the right amount of water in, i recromend 1/4 it should also be pumping "up hill" so that the extra water in the hose does not emty into the tank. as far as kalk gose you need to monitor your ph, Ca, and alk/KH. untill you find a hunny spot ware all three are at a good stable level. (note you still might need to add buffers but just maybe not as much because your kalk is keeping them up somewhat.) you do this by slowly adding more kalk powder to your ATO water. experiment with one gallon batches till you find that sweet spot. this is going to take time so be patient.

 

[swearint]

Set OFF
If Switchx2_1 CLOSED Then ON
Min Time 001:00 Then OFF

Please advise how I should have a single ATO with Kalk be set up

As acasp4 mentions, ideally you would have a second float to detect an abnormally high sump level. You could still use the method I recommended earlier with the virtual outlet limiting runtime. That would give you some extra measure of safety. Also, since you are using kalk, you should add:

If pH > 8.4 Then OFF

after the switch statement. This will prevent adding kalk when the pH is too high.

Todd

 

[Sidewinder33]

Hey guy's I've got a question and I dont think its been answered yet. I'll soon be running kalk in my ATO with a single switch. I will be adding the If Ph>8.4 then off line but as another fall back fail safe is there a way to limit the amount of on time the pump can run every time it turns on?
Currently my ATO runs for 1-2 mins each top off. I would like to put a 3 min limit every time the pump comes on in the even my switch sticks. I dont want to limit how many times is turns on just how long it can run at every top off event.

Does the Apex track how long an outlet is on? And can I use that value if it does.
EX:

ATO_FailSafe
Set Off
If Outlet ATO = ON then Start Time (something about begin tracking the on time if Apex tracks this)
If ATO Time > 003:00 then On
Min Time 030:00 Then Off

ATO
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 OPEN Then ON
If Switch1 CLOSED Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
If Outlet Maintenance = ON Then OFF
If Ph > 8.4 Then OFF
If Outlet ATO_Failsafe = On Then OFF

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Sidewinder33]

Well I believe I found a program suggested by swearint in another thread from a few years ago.

I think this will work but I'd like feedback:

*I know the Apex uses line position as it evaluates what to do but will the defer off command effect either of my fail safes?

ATO:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 OPEN Then ON
If Switch1 CLOSED Then OFF
Defer 000:45 Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON
If Outlet Maintenance = ON Then OFF
If Outlet ATO_Failsafe = ON Then OFF
If pH > 8:50 Then Off

ATO_Failsafe:

If Outlet ATO = OFF Then OFF
If Outlet ATO = ON Then ON
Defer 005:00 Then ON
Defer 015:00 Then OFF

 

[swearint]

The Defers will create a lag, but I am concerned that you have a circular reference. In otherwords, ATO relies on ATO_Failsafe which relies on ATO. This should be avoided by referencing the basic trigger, in this case switch1.

And yes, the Defer will interfere with the failsafe. A Defer...OFF will apply to all OFF conditions, similar with Defer..ON. Also, Defer (and Min Time) are always resolved last regardless of position. I prefer to place them last just as a reminder.


There is an alternative that combines a limited runtime with float control.

[ATO_Allow]
OSC 00:00/03:00/57:00 Then ON

[ATO]
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 CLOSED Then ON
If Outlet Maintenance = ON Then OFF
If Outlet ATO_Allow = OFF Then OFF
If pH > 8:50 Then OFF
Defer 00:10 Then ON

ATO_Allow sets up a repeating 'window' that limits the runtime to three minutes out of every hour. Adjust the last parameter as necessary, ie set to 117:00 for every two hours, etc. But, the ATO will run as necessary within that window.

I also recommend configuring the float so that if disconnected, the safest condition occurs. The Apex switches default to OPEN, so in this case the ATO would stay OFF.

Use just enough Defer duration to filter out any noise, but not so much that it lags too much from an accurate sump level. A Defer...OFF would cause the sump to overfill.

Todd

 

[Sidewinder33]

Awesome, thanks swearint, one question if the Allow is on and the switch is closed (I flipped my switch and statements to shut off on open at your advice) will it automatically run the full duration of the allow window? Since you dont have the if Open off statement to shut the pump off when it reaches "full"

Also I would like to make smaller more frequent bursts of top off, if I understand the OSC correctly this statement will run for 3 mins, starting at 13:30, then off 27.5 mins and back on for 3 then off for 13.5 mins again, essentially giving me windows around the 15 and 45 min mark on each hour right?

OSC 13:30/3:00/13:30