Apex Controller Life Span to Replacement

[slief]

What do you have to think about? Buy a back up base unit, get the other one fixed.

You paid $300 for a PMK and $200 for another two VDM.

A base module is $275.

I'd be bothered too if it happened to me but I know what I would do considering I have lots of modules, 3 new DDR & 5 new DOS sitting in boxes waiting to be installed.

If something goes down after the warranty expires I am not going to dump thousands of dollars in equipment because of a single piece in a big chain.

This I agree with 100%. Buy a new based unit. Set it up, send the old one in for repair and then you have a spare. I keep a spare based unit on hand as well. It's a small price to pay when you consider the investment some of us have in our larger Apex systems.

 

[karimwassef]

It's the basic entitlement of the thing. I don't continue to invest in something I consider high risk.

If I wanted something to break in two years, I'd make a DIY (and I do a lot of those). The only reason I've invested so much into a controller is that it's the one part I can't afford to have fail... If that's in question - then I need a more reliable product, or a better service agreement.

 

[karimwassef]

What do you have to think about? Buy a back up base unit, get the other one fixed.

You paid $300 for a PMK and $200 for another two VDM.

A base module is $275.

I'd be bothered too if it happened to me but I know what I would do considering I have lots of modules, 3 new DDR & 5 new DOS sitting in boxes waiting to be installed.

If something goes down after the warranty expires I am not going to dump thousands of dollars in equipment because of a single piece in a big chain.

If you bought a car for $20K and then found out it needs to have an engine rebuild, so it'll only cost $5K, but you have $10K in accessories... would you continue to trust that brand... ?

I'm more likely to return the PAR and VDMs immediately, sell the EB8s (they do retain value) and the display - even give off the corrupt controller for almost free at this point... and start over with a higher reliability controller.

Just sad that I've invested so much time and money and I have to start over from scratch because of a poor repair policy... It's especially disappointing because their support has been excellent so far.

 

[insane]

If you want a higher end controller you will pay more than double. You can try that other inexpensive brand but you will need to lower your expectations considerably. Especially when it comes to service.

Get a back up base unit or get rid of your investment completely. The choice is yours. Personally I prefer the KISS method of handling problems.

When your warranty expired, so did your service agreement.

 

[karimwassef]

How many outlets have logging enabled? If you have a bunch enabled, try disabling logging on most if not all outlets and see if that helps.

I did and it does get better. The fewer outlets I'm logging, the faster it responds. That's always been the case, but the effect used to be very minor so I would barely notice it.

Now, I can issue a command on my iPhone Fusion (turn off lights, for example) and it can take 30 seconds for it to actually happen.

For reference, my home network runs at 50 - 75 Mbps so I can stream on multiple devices with little interference. To wait 30 seconds for a light to go off is mind-numbingly slow.

 

[insane]

If you bought a car for $20K and then found out it needs to have an engine rebuild, so it'll only cost $5K, but you have $10K in accessories... would you continue to trust that brand... ?

Is it under warranty or not?

If it wasn't under warranty the decision to repair or not would be on me.

Having one bad engine doesn't make an entire corporation bad.

What you are doing is trying to make a small problem into a very big problem.

 

[karimwassef]

If you want a higher end controller you will pay more than double. You can try that other inexpensive brand but you will need to lower your expectations considerably. Especially when it comes to service.

Get a back up base unit or get rid of your investment completely. The choice is yours. Personally I prefer the KISS method of handling problems.

When your warranty expired, so did your service agreement.

I'm having to pay double - aren't I? Two controllers when one should work reliably?

I'd pay a little extra for a better service agreement, but to pay double to have it work for more than two years? Would you buy a $500 computer under that kind of arrangement?

 

[karimwassef]

Is it under warranty or not?

If it wasn't under warranty the decision to repair or not would be on me.

Having one bad engine doesn't make an entire corporation bad.

What you are doing is trying to make a small problem into a very big problem.

It's big to me...

Look, I've recommended this controller to a lot of people. I've been an advocate and continue to speak well of their support because they have been doing a great job for me.

A raw deal to me is a raw deal to me. I speak from my personal experiences - always have.

 

[slief]

I did and it does get better. The fewer outlets I'm logging, the faster it responds. That's always been the case, but the effect used to be very minor so I would barely notice it.

Now, I can issue a command on my iPhone Fusion (turn off lights, for example) and it can take 30 seconds for it to actually happen.

For reference, my home network runs at 50 - 75 Mbps so I can stream on multiple devices with little interference. To wait 30 seconds for a light to go off is mind-numbingly slow.

How is response time on your home network via the computer or phone? Are you running on Port 80 still? Port 80 can be problematic because other devices often use port 80. Regardless, have you tried switching to a different Port to see if it impacts it?

 

[karimwassef]

The speed to computer or phone is the same. The only exception is the display that's direct connect.

After the re-initialization, I didn't re-check the network settings. I'll change the port but I haven't done that in a while.

 

[karimwassef]

Also, whether I was using Fusion or the direct iPhone app / website on the internal IP address, the Apex would be unresponsive...

 

[shiftline]

As with any electronics keep it safe and it should last for ever!
- don't have it in to wet/humid of an area to prevent corrosion
- don't have it in to small of an enclosure so it doesn't overheat. Or vent it
- plug into a ups or surge protector

That alone should prevent the majority of possible things to kill your apex

 

[insane]

Try direct network cable connection with only the EB8 hooked up. Bypass your home network completely. Computer to Apex base unit.

Try different aquabus jack.

Try different aquabus cable.

Try standard incandescent light fixture on EB8 outlets.

One of these is going to show you where the problem is.

More than likely it is a problem in your network.

You said it works just not as fast as it should. That sounds like a network issue.

 

[karimwassef]

My network is fine. I have cameras that tilt and pivot and those pass through the same router with significantly more bandwidth requirement without an issue... displaying hi res with the commands from my iphone being almost instantaneously delivered.

Fusion bypasses any port forwarding, so that's not it either.

I do use a UPS.
It has never been exposed to water (EVER).
I has plenty of airflow.

All my outlets work fine from the Apex display.

So - to be clear - Neptune took a data dump of all my system's configuration, settings, data log, control logs and sent it to their experts who said it's likely a hardware issue with the controller base unit.

I didn't debug it. They did.

So - back to the main issue - If the hardware failed after 2.5 years on a 1 yr warranty item, it's up to me to pay to get it fixed. I get that. But I don't expect it to fail so soon.

Noone else seems to consider that a failure about 2.5 yrs is reasonable or expected. It's just back luck for me. That's what I started this thread to gauge. As unlikely as it may be, I have a bad unit and I have to pay to get a new one and the old one repaired. The best deal I can get is a small discount on the replacement. The rest is on me and my poor choices. I picked Neptune because I like the features and options + decent programmability. I never saw risk with hardware reliability.

Now I need to get a measure of the reliability of other controllers to see what I need to do next. If the feature set is inferior and the price is more than 2x, I might stick with Neptune. But if they're comparable but reliability is higher, even at 2x, I'll switch. If they're all going to fail so soon, then I'll go DIY and build in my own redundancy. I may also go to a strip down version where I use an external DIY for critical control functions and just use the Apex for basic data acquisition and switching functions - no more virtual outlets. That should reduce the data throughput needs without having to dump my investment completely. I have an Arduino with an Ethernet shield that I was going to experiment with, so I just need to get my Apex data to port into it now (go hybrid). Choices - choices ...

Ok. Thanks all for your input.

 

[slief]

While Fusion does bypass the need for port forwarding, port related network issues can cause all kinds of issues with web servers and the firewall. The Apex functions as as web server on the network so it's something to look into. I've been in the IT industry for 30 years and network integration is something I am all too familiar with. We also hosted our own web, DNS and mail servers in house for many years. While it may appear to be a long shot, a port related issue could be an issue that could cause similar problems.

 

[karimwassef]

I'll try it. So I need to go to my router first to associate the address with port 85 (for example) and then go into the Apex and change the HTTP Port there with port 85?

 

[slief]

I'll try it. So I need to go to my router first to associate the address with port 85 (for example) and then go into the Apex and change the HTTP Port there with port 85?

You would only need to do something on your router if you are using port forwarding. Try changing your port to 8989 or something like that. Pick a random number 4 to 5 digits. 80 is used my all kinds of devices from web cams to directv boxes. It's also a commonly blocked port with some firewalls. I ran into an issue with port 80 on my Apex out of the blue after several years of using that port. An update to my router and firewall starting causing access issues similar to what you are descibing although I wasn't using Fusion at the time. Changing my port number resolved that issue. Like I said, it's just something to look at for the reasons I mentioned previously.

 

[karimwassef]

I'm not port forwarding.

I tried changing to 87 but it rejected it. Went back to 80 and it still wouldn't connect. Had to restart to get it back up.

I may need to pick a different number

 

[slief]

I'm not port forwarding.

I tried changing to 87 but it rejected it. Went back to 80 and it still wouldn't connect. Had to restart to get it back up.

I may need to pick a different number

Like I said above. Pick a random number that is 4 or 5 digits long. I use 1024 for my web cam and a higher number for my Apex. You need to restart the Apex after you change the port. I just select the restart Apex After Changes field in the network setup web page. That way the Apex restarts automatically.

FWIW.. When I ran into a similar issue and had to change ports, it had nothing to do with port forwarding or Fusion. Port forwarding only has to do with accessing the base unit from outside your network. In my case, my routers firewall appeared to be causing an issue with that port on my Apex and I was dealing with the Apex acting unresponsive as a result even from my internal network. Whether it was something else on my network sharing the same port or the firewall itself I don't know but changing the port solved that issue for me. Most Apex experts will tell you to change the default port. Port 80 is a default port for many web based devices and it's generally recommended within the Apex community to change that.

 

[watsonj]

I keep a spare base unit as well. It's completely programmed and ready to go at a moments notice. Like you, I have a very complex system with 5 EB8's, 3 EB4's, PM1, PM2, 2 VDM's, 3 Lunar Sims, Dos, AFS, ALD Module, 2 Breakout boxes and more... You can never be too prepared.

I had the same backup solution, I had a nasty surprise when I had to use it. When you plug in the replacement master unit all the modules will take different addresses and the programing will not work, you have to reprogram quickly to get it all backup and running, just an FYI