Apex v Profilux

[rcmania]

Anyone have any thoughts on either of the two controllers? Before I was leaning towards the apex system but now i learned that the profilux has a lot to offer as well.

first i should tell you what i want out of a controller.
1 to be able to monitor remotely.
2 to be able to control remotely.
3 to be able to have a unit control LEDs (radion) and mp40s
4 to be able to copy mother nature as much as possible (sunrise, sunset, ect)
5 to be able to control a dosing unit
6 to be able to monitor more than 1 tank

those are the main things i want out of a controller.

Like i said i liked the apex system but yesterday i watched a video tutorial on the profilux system and i was floored. Im not sure if the apex can do the same things or not but now im leaning to the profilux. maybe someone of you guys who have had experience with both could shed a little more light on these two units that would help me decide.

thanks

 

[luisagos]

It always amazing me, no one talks about reliability and quality.

Controller fist duty is to watch over your system when your not around.
I would recommend you use the search and visits the forums of each controller.

You might be surprise the failure rates on some of these controller on the market.

I am a Profilux user, and you check my build thread here.

Features that Profilux has and no other controller has at the atm, correct if I am wrong.
Just a few from the top of head, features that i use in the past and in the present.

1) Touch screen Option.
2) Built in water top off and automatic water changes, better then the Genesis water change system. Just need two water sensors and Solenoids.
3) Optical water sensors option.
4) Analog 0-10 vdc Inputs option. Can attach co2 sensor, water flow meter, Par sensor and anything in the market that has a 0-10 vdc outs.
5) Every 0-10 vdc outs has a relay control for each outputs. Need a optional lost cost board. Each board does two input relay function.
6) PWM signal outs.

The touch screen is cool, you can assign icons to turn things off or on.
I have done automatic water changes from work through the net or it can be done through software timer, or even by touching the AWC icon on the touch screen.

 

[rcmania]

Thank you for your reply, Auto water changes is something i want to look into when i build my 250. I watched a guy on youtube build one and he has the auto water changing option. With my little 65 its not that big of deal. it does get old lifting containers of water up though. I would love to be able to do a water change just by hitting a button.

 

[James77]

Yes, the Apex can do all the things you listed, though the Profilux has more of it integrated, such as dosing.

I had briefly used the Profilux, and was not overly impressed with it, however I did just use it for very basic control. I did like the computer interface, and liked the randomization of the Tunze especially. I am not sure if the Vortech is similar with the Profilux, but the Apex you are limited to times and profiles...like 30-100% for 2 hours or 50-60% for 4, although the possiblities are unlimited they are not random.

In short....Profilux is great, high quality, and can pretty much control almost any aspect of your tanks. Although the entry level ones are reasonable, it can get expensive as you start to add things in. If money is not much or not at all an object and you desire alot of control, its a great controller.

Apex...another great controller and very popular. Not as high quality, but still excellent quality. Neptune has fast and great support for anyhting(Profiluxtoo, have not dealt with them though). Dosers are outlet controlled and not integrated. Programming can handle advanced things, but is more line by line based programming. It can get confusing, but easy enough curve. Price is more in line with what the average hobbyist needs and gives great bang for your buck while estill holding quality.

Of all the controllers out there, they are the only 2 I would consider. Reef Angel is another to look into, but not as elaborate YET as the Neptune and Profilux. I currently use an Apexjr, since I have limited needs for controllers. I especially dont need PAR meters, auto water changes serve zero purpose because I siphon detritus with changes and that cannot be done automatically. I have also used Profilux II(briefly), AquaControllerjr, the Full Apex, Reef Keeper Elite, and RK Lite. Profilux vs Apex? Cant go wrong with either.

it does get old lifting containers of water up though. I would love to be able to do a water change just by hitting a button.

Pumps! I am planning on setting up a water change setup where I can mix and pump new saltwater to my tank on a brute rolling can. I almost went into auto water changes with the LiterMeter, but I do not consider them reliable after using one as a top off pump. Again, I stick with manual changes because it is a great time to siphon off fish crap and algaes ectc

 

[Defuse]

It always amazing me, no one talks about reliability and quality.

You might be surprise the failure rates on some of these controller on the market.

Actually quite a few people talk about quality. Also the chance of a discussion topic of how someones controller is operating normally is significantly smaller than those that are having an issue.

FWIW I am using an Apex controller and it can achieve any of the OP's requirements and I have had zero issues with the controller.

 

[rcmania]

thank you all for your responses. Yes money is an issue but i dont have a problem in saving for a few months to purchase the equipment i desire. Yes i said desire cause i do not need any of these. I just like to add ease and a peace of mind while im away.

Defuse, is there anything you do not like about the apex?

 

[James77]

Yes i said desire cause i do not need any of these

No problem with that

 

[Defuse]

Defuse, is there anything you do not like about the apex?

I am not crazy about the web interface. You pretty much have to use IE which I really do not like and response time is very slow at times. But I really only use the web interface if I am changing one of my programs. I use the iPhone app for outlet control / feed timers and pretty much everything else. The app is very quick to respond and does exactly what I need it to for day to day things.

 

[doggydoc]

IMO Hands down Profilux MOSTLY BECAUSE OF CUSTOMER SERVICE>
It is a complicated controller but once you get the hang of it....Plus ppl in charge of cost service....Michael AND Gareth are SIMPLY AMAZING

 

[James77]

MOSTLY BECAUSE OF CUSTOMER SERVICE>

Neptune has great service as well, and I do not doubt Profilux support for a minute.

All emails I have sent to Neptune have been answered by Curt always within the same day, usuall within the hour and sometimes in minutes. I had him emailing me and checking my Apex over the web on a Sunday night to correct problems caused by a power surge.

 

[Defuse]

Neptune has great service as well, and I do not doubt Profilux support for a minute.

All emails I have sent to Neptune have been answered by Curt always within the same day, usuall within the hour and sometimes in minutes. I had him emailing me and checking my Apex over the web on a Sunday night to correct problems caused by a power surge.

+1 to Neptune customer service.

I have only contacted them once but they replied a couple hours later and were very helpful.

 

[luisagos]

Read this thread how does past equipment does not become obsolete, because of new technology.

 

[James77]

Read this thread how does past equipment does not become obsolete, because of new technology.

Neptune:

DC8, AquaSurf, BreakOut Box, DC4, are all hardware that can be used from previous AquaControllers.
Yes, the main controllers have had to be switched out. However, the Profilux II to III upgrade kit, which was ~$350 IIRC is no longer availbale. They now offer an exchange program ranging from $450 to $600 to switch from a P2 to P3. For someone upgrading from the Aquacontroller Jr to Apex, that money would buy a whole new controler, and extra 8 outlets, 4 dimmable ports and any hardware they can carry over from the older Neptune.

Also, its worth noting that most controllers these days are fully modular. All of these companie2 are planning to incorprate old hardware with new.

 

[luisagos]

Neptune:

DC8, AquaSurf, BreakOut Box, DC4, are all hardware that can be used from previous AquaControllers.
Yes, the main controllers have had to be switched out. However, the Profilux II to III upgrade kit, which was ~$350 IIRC is no longer availbale. They now offer an exchange program ranging from $450 to $600 to switch from a P2 to P3. For someone upgrading from the Aquacontroller Jr to Apex, that money would buy a whole new controler, and extra 8 outlets, 4 dimmable ports and any hardware they can carry over from the older Neptune.

Also, its worth noting that most controllers these days are fully modular. All of these companie2 are planning to incorprate old hardware with new.

Your missing some key points and time frames.

When P3 came out, they release a P2 to P3 upgrade kit for $200 at the same time. I think it even came out before the release of the P3 controller.

They wanted every P2 user to have this kit at a discounted price. This lasted about 3-6 month.
Also every expansion card, every probe is still usable from P2 to P3, they are the same hardware.

I remember looking at Apex when they release it, the older Neptune had more hardware then Apex did at release time.
Every P3 user had everything the P2 had and then all of great features of P3 offered.

We did not have to wait for anything, and I say it again, they do this with the highest standards.
In the long run, Profilux is much cheaper route to go. No need worry about sockets freezing due to low current, head display not working, or not displaying.

I was told by someone in the Aquarium maintenance service that Netune is releasing a new controller, something better to address some of the problems thay are having, I have no way to confirm it.
Take that for what its worth.

 

[James77]

It's not worth to much it's a rumor I have heard from about 2 people, you are the third. If they release a new controller it would be compatible with every part ofthe Apex.

I did not miss your point either. To upgrade to the new controller MA be able to use the hardware, you have to pay a substantial amount of money. Yes, they ran specials at first, but good luck now. Sockets freezing, the problem revolves around triacs, So just use the relay based eb4 and problem solved.

The argument that profilux is the cheaper way to go is such a broad and silly comment. For you? Sure. For me or the average hobbyist? Far from it. People's needs and limits play into this, and there is no superior controller. The. Neptune is by far the most popular though.


To the OP, the cerebra controller is in or close to being in beta. Android, touchscreen, multiple ph, dimming, etc. check out the premium aquatics forum where I've seen updates.

 

[rcmania]

First i would like to say thank you all for your opinions and experiences. Each one of you brought great insight to the table. Just like with any other purchase, once you make it; there is always something newer and faster coming out a week later. :headwally:That is the gamble we all take and buying electronic equipment.

however, after several days pondering and weighing the two possibilities.:hmm2: I think im going to go with the profilux3. It just seems that there are a few more options available plus you get full and total control. I know ill end up paying more for the profilux3 but thats ok. Im a firm believer that you get what you pay for. im not saying that the apex system wont fulfill my needs or is not a great system. I have read a lot of great reviews on this product. It may be all some reefers need and or want. I fill that for a few hundred bucks more I can have a system that will be able to do more and leaves the door open for more possibilities.

 

[luisagos]

The Cerebra Controller has been delay so many times.

Also what can the Cerebra Controller do, Profilux cannot do and at the same time have track record of quality?

Also when your ready to setup your automatic water change, please contact me with your build thread, I will post the information in how I did my.

 

[James77]

The Cerebra Controller has been delay so many times.

Also what can the Cerebra Controller do, Profilux cannot do and at the same time have track record of quality?

Also when your ready to setup your automatic water change, please contact me with your build thread, I will post the information in how I did my.

And? It is in beta now, so what does it matter if it has been delayed. I'm sure SE will find out just how well it compares to profilux and other great controllers soon.
Reading up on it it seems like it will do the same and more as a profilux, plus have the ability to control your home as well.

 

[James77]

This looks to be really awesome system.


*******************************************************
Hardware:

ARM Cortex-A8 CPU by Freescale
32bit processor
800MHz
512Mb RAM
24bit color display capable of 16,777,216 colors.
32KB instruction and data cache
Unified 256KB L2 cache
Neon SIMD media accelerator
Vector Floating point co-processor
Battery buffered RTC
Power management mode
Other Material, design and construction:

Anodized Aluminum outer body combined with ABS/PC end caps
USB and other connectors hidden in our half-hexagon conduit compartment
3.5” Wide Screen Touch display
8 layer board construction more than 850 components
Back wall connection plate to mount on the wall or in cabinet.
Swiveling bracket
V-Grid network module
Multimedia:

OpenGL ES 2.0 and open VG 1.1hardware accelerator
24-BIT display supports up to WXGA resolution
High quality hardware Video de-interlacing
Image and video resize, inversion and rotation hardware
Alpha blending and color space conversion
Security:

All network connections firewalled
Operation software:

Android 2.2
Fast and responsive
Enables user to illustrate apps.
Vertex™ App-Store:

Buy Apps
Sell Vertex™ approved apps
Share knowledge, Ideas, create, expand and grow
Wireless Communication:

W-LAN
Bluetooth
Zig-Bee (802.15.4 PHY)
GSM
Features:

First app based aquarium controller
Modules connected over USB 2.0
SD card
Supports external tablets
Graphical menus
Embedded web server to monitor, configure and or control over Internet or Intranet.
Auto detection of new hardware
Ethernet connection onboard
NTP time control
Automatic firmware update capable
Multiple fail safe and error detection features
Galvanic isolation of modules via optocouplers and DC-DC convertors/ 2KV isolation
Supports “Smart Digital” sensors, capable of error detection, 2 way communication
Supports industry standard sensors
Battery powered wireless remote sensors
Monitor and report power consumption of each connected device
Programmable logic
Email Alerts
SMS alerts
Data logging, history, graphing
Remote monitoring and control via Internet and GSM
I-Phone App
Capable of being linked to Zig-Bee universal remote controllers
Printer compatible to print reports, logs and or graphs
Browse Internet
Watch high resolution videos
V-light composer for simulating sunrise, sunset, weather simulations…
LED diming and control
Variable speed pump control
Modify, create and or write apps to fully customize control of your system
Parameters:

Monitor and control PH
Monitor and control Redox
Monitor and control conductivity (Both salt and fresh water)
Monitor and control dissolved oxygen
Monitor and control temperature
Monitor and control ambient humidity
Monitor and control dissolved Co2
Monitor and control ambient Co2 Levels
Monitor and control many other parameters via V-Chrome such as Calcium, magnesium…


Additional modules:

PWM
Variable AC outlets
1-10V
Dali
Air-flow meter and regulators
Fluid-flow meter and regulators
V-Cam wireless Camera for remote real time viewing
Par/Lux
Remote low power wireless sensors
Leak detector
Fluid level sensor mechanical and or optical
UPS Module; enables the life support system in case of power interruption
Variable speed power-heads such as Tunze
Construction of Modules:

Each module consists of 2 parts, primary and secondary.
Primary module is universal for most devices and will connect to cerebra via USB.
The secondary modules are function specific which will connect to a primary module
Devices are interchangeable through different USB connections and different modules
Modules casing; anodized Aluminum with ABS/PC end caps
Supporting devices via USB and or many other applicable connectors

Power blocks:

Anodized Aluminum construction
Quality relays with In-rush surge protection
Will be available in 6 and 8 socket blocks
Quality components
Additional USB ports on power blocks, one uplink and 3 downlinks
Hall sensors on board to measure current draw/ consumption of each connected device
Native support of:

Libra dosing systems
V-Chrome colorimeter
V-Cam wireless camera module
Illumina luminaires
Illumilux luminaires
Cerebra introduces an entirely new user interface based on an elegant wide screen touch display and revolutionary software that allows users to monitor, configure and or control every aspect of their system’s operations with just a tap of their finger. It allows the aquarist to share thoughts, ideas, acquire methods, information and or illustrate an app to set his or her own foot-print on aquatic cyber space through Vertex™ Cerebra.
See you out there in V-SPACE.
Vertex Aquaristik™ GmbH

*Most if not all mentioned features and or devices above are targeted to be released by or before Interzoo 2012.(This time line does not include any specific apps.)
**Initial product Launch date is set for August2011.

********************************************************

I spoke with the owner of Vertex for quite a while last night and the latest is that the controller firmware is completely ready to go, other than the GUI (graphical user interface). They're debating on a couple of different layouts right now, but will be taken care of in the next week or two.

The beta units are shipping to user the first or second week of March. There will obviously be a few bugs in programming as every controller has, thus the need for the beta test.

The package will retail between $699 and $799, and include the following:

- Head Unit
- Power Bar 8
- Temp Sensor

The Power Bar 8 will have the following ports:

- 2 x ph
- 2 x ORP
- 1 x PAR Sensor
- 0-10vdc output
..... and one or two other things that I"m forgetting right now.

The main cpu (head unit) will include multiple USB ports, as well as DVI connection, built in webserver.

As soon as we have a little more info (pictures included), as well as a firm retail price we will start to do preorders for them.

Also a rather expensive controller, but you have touchscreen out of box and Im sure internet connectivity. USB, PAR, 2 ph and ORP.......sounds like a great starter to me.

 

[toddsmith1]

In just our local group, there have been numerous Apex complete failures. They are very good about standing behind there product though. But at that point, the damage has all ready been done. Are you willing to spend a little extra now for the piece of mind that your tank is safe? I have used 3 different Neptune products and liked them all. I decided to bite the bullet and skipped over the APEX and spent the extra for the Profilux. I have been very happy with my decision.