Apex vs RKL

[rlpardue]

Hi everyone,

I'm a bit overwhelmed by the options, packages, probes, net connections, etc. involved with controllers. I haven't found a good thread analyzing the possibilities (if such could be done in one thread), and I'm hoping some charitable soul might be able to direct me to a good thread or just answer my questions. I need to decide b/t Apex (Jr, Lite, or full) or RKL (net-capable), and price will be a big factor.

The capabilities I'm looking for would be as follows:
-Net-capable- My main concern is that I want to be able to access my tank's parameters remotely, either by internet on a pc or via my iphone. I don't necessarily need to be able to turn every single doo-daa that's part of my system on and off remotely, but I do want to be able to check: pH; temp; sump water level failure (either too low or an over-topping-off ATO malfunction). I also want to be able to receive email or text alerts if specified events happen

- I need to be able to control a 2-part dosing system (which I haven't bought yet) and would prefer (but not pay much money for) the option of being able to add a 2nd pH probe in the future (if I move to a Ca reactor)

-Timers- In addition to the 2-part dosers, I'd want to time my MH lights (and program them to delay 10 minutes following a power failure before turning back on), pumps (Koralia/MJ/Voyager powerheads, possibly my MP40 as well)

- Protein skimmer/return pump shutoff in case of certain events happening - for example, if I go to feed mode, or if water in sump falls too low, or if flood alarm is triggered)

-Generally, I'm looking for the ability to set logic "rules" for my equipment to follow. I'm a simple man when it comes to programming, but if it follows normal logic structure (if->then statements, etc) then it'll work for me

I'll want to plug in the following items: 2-3 MH ballasts, skimmer, return pump, heater, dosers (2), ATO switch and pump (1 plug required), 1-2 powerheads (OR- this would be cool-hopefully I could put my Hydor wavemaker into the controller, with 2-3 powerheads linked into the wavemaker).

My price range would probably top out at around $350, if that's possible. Otherwise my marriage would suffer :debi:

Thanks!

 

[bazineta]

All the Apex units are net capable out of the box. If you can bring an ethernet cable directly to the tank, then you don't need anything else; if that's not an option, then you need a wireless bridge or a gaming adapter to connect wirelessly. However, there's no separate net module, they all come with networking built in. Using an iPhone and the free app ('AquaController Apex, by Neptune Systems, on the App Store) you can indeed turn every single doodad that's part of your system on and off remotely. Sending email alerts or text messages is also built in. Saved my tank more than once.

I use mine to control a BRS 2-part system (basically two BRS pumps, one for Alk, one for Ca), works great. For your additional pH probe requirement, there's either the full Apex, on which you can configure both ports as pH (or one as pH and one as ORP), or the addition of a pH module at some later time. Given this is a future requirement, the add-on module might be the cheaper choice.

You can time anything, with delays, hysteresis, etc.

Turning things off in feed mode, or when other devices are off, or when probes or float switches are high, etc., also part of the basic function of all Apex units.

The logic is fairly simple, but I'm an engineer, so I'm not a good metric. There's a user guide stickied at the top of this forum that provides numerous examples of the logic; you can check those out to see if it's what you're expecting.

For the amount of equipment you're describing, it sounds as if you'd require more than 8 outlets, if not for outlet count, then perhaps for load (3 MH ballasts is a lot of amps, generally). The Apex units have 8-outlet bars and 4-outlet bars available, so it'd be a matter of figuring out your load and any requirement for very low-power devices, as the 8-outlet bars have 2 outlets suitable for very low power loads, while the 4-outlet bars have all 4 outlets suitable for low power. See the users guide stickied at the top for more details on the bars.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others will chime in here as well.

 

[giz2]

I am new Apex owner so I will let more experienced people respond wrt its capabilities (I would say the apex could easily do as you wish). One thing I would state is that I was a RKL owner and just switched to Apex. The RKL works quite well but I found that any updates take huge amounts of time.....and updates are very few and far between now. On top of it they appear to announce new products prior to resolving older issues. Btw the new products typically also seem to run very late. I expect controller capabilities to evolve, not stagnate.

Just my $0.02 as I know you are looking to purchase.

 

[grcforce327]

The apex will do what you want,but I think you'll be spending more than $350. The huge plus of the apex is tech(Paul)support!!!:thumbsup: His response time and help is outstanding!!!That's why I purchased more add-ons! You can find good prices and quick shipping from Greg @ Saltwater Eddies!

Guy C.

 

[rlpardue]

Thanks for the input guys. Is it possible to do the stuff I mentioned above with an Apex Lite with 8 outlets?

 

[rlpardue]

I just looked on Saltwater Eddies and I think the RKL (plus net) would work for me. It only comes with 4 outlets though so I'd fill it up with the heater, ATO, and 2 dosing pumps. Do you guys know if all of the rule-setting stuff is part of the RKL package? And can it meet my internet/iphone requirements? I like the 379$ package with the pH probe. Is there an Apex solution for a comparable price?

 

[bazineta]

This being the Neptune forum, many of us are not going to be precisely flush with RKL knowledge, and those who are tend to be refugees from that camp. There is a DA forum here as well, where you might get answers to your questions. Having just taken a look there myself, I would, in fact, strongly recommend you do some reading there.

Comparable to the package you mention (4 outlets, pH monitoring), would, I think, be the Apex Jr. and a PM1 module; price on that setup would appear to be substantially cheaper.

 

[RussM]

The network & smartphone-compatible capabilities of the RKL w/ NET pale in comparison to the Apex. Of particular note is that the Apex app for iPhone/iPad is an official Neptune product; the RK apps are not supported by DA (they were developed by 3rd parties), and have less capability IMO.

For about the same price, you can get an Apex Jr, EB4, PM1 and pH probe.... pretty much the same as that RKL package... 8 outlets, temp and pH monitoring. For about $30 more, you can do an Apex Lite system with the same initial capabilities and a display module but with much more future expandability.

If you are a Mac user, be aware that DA has left you out in the cold - you MUST run Windows to use their MyReef software, which is required to fully manage the RKE/RKL. Neptune

 

[jschultzbass]

I went from a RKL to Apex and very happy I did. RKL was nice but Apex is a lot better and has a lot more functionality.

 

[Landsailor]

And can it meet my internet/iphone requirements? I like the 379$ package with the pH probe. Is there an Apex solution for a comparable price?

Yeah, there's the Apex Lite system with eight outlets for $369 plus $25 for a Pinpoint pH probe.

I hope you like dismantling the control system to update the firmware by connecting it to the computer, because that's what you'll be doing with the Reefkeeper. Meanwhile, Apex owners just do it via Ethernet. Of course, it doesn't happen that often with DA since the firmware stagnates.

Seriously, the networking capabilities of the Apex blow the RK out of the water. If you only want four outlets, you'll save some serious dough with an Apex Jr. and PM1.

You need manufacturer's support for phone apps. Period. Third party is NOT the way to go. (Neptune's Android app will be released shortly.)

 

[rlpardue]

Landsailor sold me lol. Do you do this for a living? I'll go for the Apex Lite w/ 8 outlets and a pH probe

Thanks yall! (my apologies, I'm a Texan)

 

[grcforce327]

I just looked on Saltwater Eddies and I think the RKL (plus net) would work for me. It only comes with 4 outlets though so I'd fill it up with the heater, ATO, and 2 dosing pumps. Do you guys know if all of the rule-setting stuff is part of the RKL package? And can it meet my internet/iphone requirements? I like the 379$ package with the pH probe. Is there an Apex solution for a comparable price?

Greg@ Saltwater Eddies is awesome!That's where I get everything for my Apex! :thumbsup:

I don't see how I would ever have a reef setup and rely on only 4 outlets! Hell,my lighting alone takes 5 ! I got another 8 from Greg for more stuff.:lol2:

Guy C.

 

[Landsailor]

Landsailor sold me lol. Do you do this for a living? I'll go for the Apex Lite w/ 8 outlets and a pH probe

Well, I've already been through all of the comparisons of the systems since I don't like wasting money and always look to get the best bang for the buck. After working with Neptune's support, I am even more convinced in the product and company. Plus, when I blew up my Apex Jr, it was easy-peasy to buy a new full Apex module.

I am still amazed at the capability you can buy for $149 with the Apex Jr. Now, if the cheap Reef Keeper had network capability, then I would probably have gone that way, but I'm glad it doesn't. I really feel Apex is a great combination of price, value, and engineering.

 

[tcoral]

I just looked on Saltwater Eddies and I think the RKL (plus net) would work for me. It only comes with 4 outlets though so I'd fill it up with the heater, ATO, and 2 dosing pumps. Do you guys know if all of the rule-setting stuff is part of the RKL package? And can it meet my internet/iphone requirements? I like the 379$ package with the pH probe. Is there an Apex solution for a comparable price?

You should have bought during the Black Friday deals, a new apex full was going for $390 after discounts!

 

[mcgrawjt]

Greg@ Saltwater Eddies is awesome!That's where I get everything for my Apex! :thumbsup:

I don't see how I would ever have a reef setup and rely on only 4 outlets! Hell,my lighting alone takes 5 ! I got another 8 from Greg for more stuff.:lol2:

Guy C.

I hear you! These things can grow like crazy. I have 2 EB8's and 1 EB4. I only have two outlets available on the EB4. Three of my outlets are doubled up on the EB8's! 2 cooling fans are in one outlet, 2 Tunze's are on one outlet and the 2 small pumps for my calcium reactor are on one outlet (all 3 are minimal power devices and things I want to ensure run simultaneously). Without doubling up I would be an outlet short!

John

 

[HV1990]

You should have bought during the Black Friday deals, a new apex full was going for $390 after discounts!

Tina, neptune followed suit of echo tech and did not allow discounts