Aptasia Experiments
- Thread starter jnowell
- Start date
I was just looking as some Joes Jucie that a friend of mine bought and its the exact same stuff I have been using for years and learned about on Garf's web site. Its Calcium Hydroxide....something most good reefers have already. The insturctions from Garf were to mix about a tablespoon of calcium Hydroxide powder with about 50 m/l of R/O .. then microwave for about 30 secs. Then inject it with a neele and surgine into the little pest. They will die with in 24 hours. This is only good for small out breaks. Coverd live rock....get the bergihas you will be glad you did. They are great unitl they have nothing left to eat then they die
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I would stick with a biological cure such as copperband or longnose butterflies, peppermint shrimp, and molly miller blennies.
Injecting a huge colony is out of the question. Calcium hydroxide or acid will kill a broad spectrum of marine-life with a PH shift. Hyposalinity would be ineffective as they have the ability to close up and cover themselves with a protective mucous membrane. Pouring salt on the rock and allowing it to slowly dissolve wouldn't effect PH but may not kill all of them.
If you had to go the chemical route, I would use copper at 30ppm for 7 days. It wouldn't adversely effect bacteria, only invertebrates and some of the coraline algae. Coraline algae will bounce back in a few months.
Don't worry too much about getting all of them, as you will likely introduce more with future coral purchases.
Injecting a huge colony is out of the question. Calcium hydroxide or acid will kill a broad spectrum of marine-life with a PH shift. Hyposalinity would be ineffective as they have the ability to close up and cover themselves with a protective mucous membrane. Pouring salt on the rock and allowing it to slowly dissolve wouldn't effect PH but may not kill all of them.
If you had to go the chemical route, I would use copper at 30ppm for 7 days. It wouldn't adversely effect bacteria, only invertebrates and some of the coraline algae. Coraline algae will bounce back in a few months.
Don't worry too much about getting all of them, as you will likely introduce more with future coral purchases.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Yes I'm crazy, but my suggestion wasn't. Killing aiptasia without adversely affecting beneficial bacteria was the original question asked. I was suggesting treatment of the rocks only (REMOVE ALL INVERTEBRATES DURING TREATMENT). I prefer a "natural" cure, but I thought I'd give a safer alternative to the formalin and methylene blue treatments Jnowel was using.
Formalin is a carcinogen, it kills nitrifying bacteria, depletes dissolved oxygen levels and it contains methanol as a stabilizer. Methylene blue will dye the rocks, kill nitrobactor and all coraline algae. Copper is the most efficient poison for killing invertebrates (aiptasia in this case) without disrupting bacterial colonies.
Roughing up a copper wire with sandpaper and piercing the anemone will provide enough localized copper to kill it without adversely effecting other organisms. The difficulty is in manually carrying this out.
The overall idea is to use a localized poison or PH shock that is in high concentration for the anemone, and safe for the tank once it is dissipates. Calcium hydroxide (Joe's Juice) is caustic (PH shock) in the initial dose, then becomes bioavailable calcium once dissolved. Vinegar is acidic (PH shock) and is buffered out by calcareous media and chemical reactions in the aquarium. Non-buffered copper sulphate is absorbed by calcareous surfaces and falls out of solution in a few days. It can be completely removed with polymeric absorbents (polyfilters) or ion exchange resins (Kent toxic metal sponge). Copper is the only effective agent that can be dosed in full concentration to affect anemones throughout the tank. Treating with copper will kill all of the anemones, no matter where they are.
Formalin is a carcinogen, it kills nitrifying bacteria, depletes dissolved oxygen levels and it contains methanol as a stabilizer. Methylene blue will dye the rocks, kill nitrobactor and all coraline algae. Copper is the most efficient poison for killing invertebrates (aiptasia in this case) without disrupting bacterial colonies.
Roughing up a copper wire with sandpaper and piercing the anemone will provide enough localized copper to kill it without adversely effecting other organisms. The difficulty is in manually carrying this out.
The overall idea is to use a localized poison or PH shock that is in high concentration for the anemone, and safe for the tank once it is dissipates. Calcium hydroxide (Joe's Juice) is caustic (PH shock) in the initial dose, then becomes bioavailable calcium once dissolved. Vinegar is acidic (PH shock) and is buffered out by calcareous media and chemical reactions in the aquarium. Non-buffered copper sulphate is absorbed by calcareous surfaces and falls out of solution in a few days. It can be completely removed with polymeric absorbents (polyfilters) or ion exchange resins (Kent toxic metal sponge). Copper is the only effective agent that can be dosed in full concentration to affect anemones throughout the tank. Treating with copper will kill all of the anemones, no matter where they are.
saltyunderground
In Memoriam
mr.wilson,
Have your tried dosing copper to kill aiptasia as an experiment or otherwise? I am curious if the aiptasia will return (regenerated from the pieces that break off while dying) after the water has been changed.
Have your tried dosing copper to kill aiptasia as an experiment or otherwise? I am curious if the aiptasia will return (regenerated from the pieces that break off while dying) after the water has been changed.
rcmike
Active member
My post may have been a little harsh but I just don't understand how copper can be safer than calcium hydroxide. I have even heard you don't want to use a bare tank that has had copper in it at some point, not to mention rock. Calcium hydroxide is only going to kill what it is injected into or maybe a very small amount of bacteria right under the anemone. I agree that peppermint shrimp and aiptasia eating shrimp are the best choice for a large infestation since you can't inject thousands of them.
saltyunderground
In Memoriam
I have talked with literally 100+ people who have tried using Joe's Juice, Kalk paste, Kill Aiptasia and the other chemical solutions to kill aiptasia in their display tanks. The overwhelming majority of those people who use these methods have made their aiptasia problems worse, not better. The little pieces of aiptasia that break off from the main anemone can start a new anemone. So you may kill one large aiptaisa and make 10 small ones. The best way to succeed using these chemicals is to siphon off the dying aiptasia and prevent any peices from floating off into the tank.
rcmike
Active member
To tell you the truth I have never had a real aiptasia problem. My main problem has been majano anemones. I never could find a predator that would eat them and not anything else. Joe's juice worked great for them though. Kalk would make them multiply just like you said though.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I didn't take your comments as harsh. I have never used copper to solve an aiptasia problem, nor would I. I use aiptasia in refugia as a means of mechanical filtration and nutrient assimilation and export. Physical barrier and UV irradiation assures that they don't infest the display tank.
When I experience aiptasia infestations, I've always had success with fish or shrimp as a biological control. As stated in earlier posts, mechanical removal is often one step forward, two steps back, as they are cued to reproduce. My recommendation of copper as a "cure", was only implied as the lesser of the available evils (chemical warfare).
Just to clarify, Kalkwasser, Joe's Juice, and calcium hydroxide are all one in the same chemical. They are only marginally effective when used correctly.
Once one has exhausted their patience with the injection method and biological cures, chemical warfare is regrettably the final option. If you are in that place, you must weigh the various weapons at hand.
Calcium hydroxide would kill everything in its' wake if added to the tank at a lethal dose for aiptasia. The PH would shoot up to 11 and alter water chemistry.
Medications such as formalin, methylene blue, malachite green, acriflavine, and to round out the colour spectrum, potassium permanganate, will all adversely effect nitrifying bacteria.
On the other hand, copper sulphate will target any and all invertebrates while leaving nitrifying bacteria intact. There are no dyes to contend with and polymeric absorbents and/or ion exchange resins will remove all residual Cu even if bound in calcareous media. Coraline algae will be lost to some degree, but it will bounce back.
One mans heavy metal is another mans trace element. Fish have haemoglobin in their blood which is comprised of iron. Marine invertebrates on the other hand, have haemocyanin in their blood which is comprised of copper. This is how copper medications are able to kill invertebrates while remaining "safe" for vertebrates, algae, and bacteria.
The idea that an aquarium that once contained copper not being reef safe is false. Once copper falls out of solution, it's no longer a threat to invertebrates. Although copper is bound in calcareous media, it can be removed chemically as stated above.
Have you tried copperband or longnose (f. logirostris) butterflies with your majano? Overfeeding is often the cause of their rise, but limiting food seldom brings their fall.
When I experience aiptasia infestations, I've always had success with fish or shrimp as a biological control. As stated in earlier posts, mechanical removal is often one step forward, two steps back, as they are cued to reproduce. My recommendation of copper as a "cure", was only implied as the lesser of the available evils (chemical warfare).
Just to clarify, Kalkwasser, Joe's Juice, and calcium hydroxide are all one in the same chemical. They are only marginally effective when used correctly.
Once one has exhausted their patience with the injection method and biological cures, chemical warfare is regrettably the final option. If you are in that place, you must weigh the various weapons at hand.
Calcium hydroxide would kill everything in its' wake if added to the tank at a lethal dose for aiptasia. The PH would shoot up to 11 and alter water chemistry.
Medications such as formalin, methylene blue, malachite green, acriflavine, and to round out the colour spectrum, potassium permanganate, will all adversely effect nitrifying bacteria.
On the other hand, copper sulphate will target any and all invertebrates while leaving nitrifying bacteria intact. There are no dyes to contend with and polymeric absorbents and/or ion exchange resins will remove all residual Cu even if bound in calcareous media. Coraline algae will be lost to some degree, but it will bounce back.
One mans heavy metal is another mans trace element. Fish have haemoglobin in their blood which is comprised of iron. Marine invertebrates on the other hand, have haemocyanin in their blood which is comprised of copper. This is how copper medications are able to kill invertebrates while remaining "safe" for vertebrates, algae, and bacteria.
The idea that an aquarium that once contained copper not being reef safe is false. Once copper falls out of solution, it's no longer a threat to invertebrates. Although copper is bound in calcareous media, it can be removed chemically as stated above.
Have you tried copperband or longnose (f. logirostris) butterflies with your majano? Overfeeding is often the cause of their rise, but limiting food seldom brings their fall.
Hi ,I used to have a big aiptasia problem,after I use every method,my friend told me one good aiptasia eater,Red Sea Golden Butterfiy (Semilarvatus Butterfly Red Sea) first few days,u cannot sea him eating those stuff,but after one month I can sure u cannot find any aiptasia left,I told another friend of mine who also have prolem with aiptasia,after adding this fish,he also fix the problem u can try this
Ken
Ken
Hi ,I used to have a big aiptasia problem,after I use every method,my friend told me one good aiptasia eater,Red Sea Golden Butterfiy (Semilarvatus Butterfly Red Sea) first few days,u cannot sea him eating those stuff,but after one month I can sure u cannot find any aiptasia left,I told another friend of mine who also have prolem with aiptasia,after adding this fish,he also fix the problem u can try this
Ken
Ken
reefgeek67
New member
copperband butterflies eat aptasia---i suggest about 4 more peppermint shrimp and a copperband......make sure your shrimp are not camelbacks......some stores sell those as peppermints
Chad Vossen
New member
pepermint shrimp will also attack and bite your hand if they are hungry enough!!
i was fishing out a hermit crab for a costomer and we had over 10 pepermints in the tank that attacked my hand, only 1 bit me but it hurt. i fed my pepermint to my anemone cuz it would steal food from it so i made him into food lol.
i was fishing out a hermit crab for a costomer and we had over 10 pepermints in the tank that attacked my hand, only 1 bit me but it hurt. i fed my pepermint to my anemone cuz it would steal food from it so i made him into food lol.
GARFVolunteer
Premium Member
I bought a Raccoon Butterfly fish that wiped out all my aiptasia then the xenia, zoanthids, star polyps, hairy mushrooms and clams... I was finally able to catch it and find it a new home.
Alphabet
Member
I also have an issue with aptasia, I was also looking for better advice. I was given two other methods. First was squirt lemon juice on the aptasia with something like a turkey baster. Second you could use a hot ro/di water with a turkey baster. Hot water is supposed to kill them instantly, not sure I will try it. I am unsure how the lemon juice will effect the water quality of my tank, even in low amounts. Any thoughts before I proceed? Thanks
saltyunderground
In Memoriam
Siphon the aiptasia out right after the application or you'll probably make the problem worse.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
A lot of Butterflyfish species eat Aiptasia.
The main concern with using Butterflyfish to eradicate anemones is the fact that the fish might eat something that you want to keep alive.
Does anyone know if the "Molly Miller" Blenny attacks any inverts besides small anemones?
jnowell
New member
If you try the lemon juice, do so sparingly, and watch your pH very closely. The acidity will knock it WAY out of whack quickly if you use too much.
I'm heading out to get a butterfly right now, am also picking up a few more pepps. I'll let you guys know how they do.
On another note, the formalin didn't actually work, I transferred some of that rock to my new pipefish tank, and sure enough, I spotted two appies a few days after adding it.
Jason
I'm heading out to get a butterfly right now, am also picking up a few more pepps. I'll let you guys know how they do.
On another note, the formalin didn't actually work, I transferred some of that rock to my new pipefish tank, and sure enough, I spotted two appies a few days after adding it.
Jason
