Aqua Forest Questions

[Myka]

Ok great information! Thank you

When I make and add Mag I use a mix of Mag chloride with sulfate as in the BRS recipes. In fact I have only the BRS soda ash, calcium chloride, and make my own mix of Mag with BRS mag chloride and epsons salt 5:3 cups per gallon.

You're welcome. You can use the products you currently have and add the Components Strong to them. Calcium chloride is calcium chloride is calcium chloride. Same with soda ash (sodium carbonate) and Mg. It's all the same. Just make sure you don't put that Mg MIX into the same container as the calcium! If you only have a 3-head doser, manually dose the Mg mix once a week during the waterchange - just add it to the freshly mixed SW. Mg doesn't need to be added by a whole whack, so once a week dosing is sufficient for most tanks.

 

[Myka]

As of now I only use and need Kalk but as my corals grow and I buy more I'm sure I'll exceed its capacity to maintain ALK/Cal. Just started using AF Reef Salt and I like it so far. I have a simple method of nutrient control. Large skimmer (SRO-5000), 3 ea MarinePure blocks, 24ml of vinegar daily, I was using cheato until I found Vibrant and Phosphate RX, which I like so far. I'm doing well to keep NO3 at or around 10ppm, was much much lower and had to add Potassium Nitrate but fish load has seemed to catch up.

It sounds like you have it balanced right now, but instead of adding KNO3, reduce the vinegar! You're using vinegar to REDUCE nitrate, so it makes sense to back off of it to INCREASE nitrate, right?

I'm not familiar with Vibrant, but this thread (http://www.*********.com/threads/vibrant-liquid-aquarium-cleaner-discussion-thread.271428/) tells me that Vibrant is mainly bacteria along with a small amount of bacteria foods. Phosphate Rx is simply a Lanthanum chloride product for binding phosphate.

So to achieve what you want, you adjust the vinegar so you have SOME nitrate, not too much, not too little. Then you use the Phosphate Rx the same way, just enough to keep PO4 in a good range - not too much, not too little.

In the case of Aquaforest, replace the vinegar with AF NP Pro, Areplace the Phosphate Rx to AF Phosphate Minus, and the Vibrant seems to be similar to AF ProBioS. Just a different way to do the same thing.

 

[Potatohead]

Myka,

FM Balling Light is designed to have each element dosed based on the requirements of the tank. It is explained on pages 6 & 7 of the manual;

http://static.faunamarin.de/manuals/manual_balling-methode_eng(1).pdf

Depending on the content of the aquarium, the individual solutions are now metered manually in order to determine the actual requirements

Using this simple calculation you can easily adjust each of your desired values and set an automatic dosing schedule

the addition of trace elements in the canister is used to compensate (balance) the Balling solutions

Also this interview with Claude Schuhmacher who developed the Balling Light system is a good read. He is asked about dosing amounts about halfway through.

https://************.com/2010/01/13/interview-claude-schuhmacher-balling-method-fauna-marin/

Reef builders

 

[bif24701]

It sounds like you have it balanced right now, but instead of adding KNO3, reduce the vinegar! You're using vinegar to REDUCE nitrate, so it makes sense to back off of it to INCREASE nitrate, right?



I'm not familiar with Vibrant, but this thread (http://www.*********.com/threads/vibrant-liquid-aquarium-cleaner-discussion-thread.271428/) tells me that Vibrant is mainly bacteria along with a small amount of bacteria foods. Phosphate Rx is simply a Lanthanum chloride product for binding phosphate.



So to achieve what you want, you adjust the vinegar so you have SOME nitrate, not too much, not too little. Then you use the Phosphate Rx the same way, just enough to keep PO4 in a good range - not too much, not too little.



In the case of Aquaforest, replace the vinegar with AF NP Pro, Areplace the Phosphate Rx to AF Phosphate Minus, and the Vibrant seems to be similar to AF ProBioS. Just a different way to do the same thing.

I may have miss spoke, initially I had to add potassium nitrate but that was months ago. 24 ml of vinegar is pretty light as it is not very strong. I like the added benefits that dosing a little carbon gives me.

Thank you for the AF equivalents. NO3 seems to be holding right at 10ppm where is what I need right now. P-RX helps keep it .03 or lower. Battling some bryopsis right now. Would love to have some of that stuff that eliminates it but I've had not luck searching a seller that doesn't require a prescription.


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[Geeray]

First of all, I want to say that I don't think bacteria-driven systems of any brand should be in the hands of novice reef keepers because it takes a fair bit of know-how to recognize when you're messing things up.

Second, Aquaforest is a good option for novice reef keepers because regardless of it's poor presentation it is actually a very easy system to use. I do recommend that novice reef keepers stay away from the Coral A, B, V, E and also the NP Pro and bacteria products. Novice keepers should simply use the Components for dosing Ca, alk, Mg and micro/trace. If they need nutrient reduction, I find biopellets a better option for novice keepers.

FWIW, I've been using the Aquaforest Components since April last year. I used the A, B, V, E for a few months, but didn't get much for results. Now I just use the Components (see below) and Zeovit Pohl's Xtra (ammonia, nitrate, and aminos). I add some ProBioS once a week or so because I have it, not because I think it does anything. :lol: I don't use any type of nutrient reducer besides the skimmer and waterchanges. I use the Probiotic salt on my own tank. I use the Reef Salt and Sea Salt on several client tanks.



Kind of. You would need to also buy the AF Reef Mineral, and if you're using Mg sulfate (epsom salt) you will need to adjust mixing.

With AF, they use Magnesium chloride only, so it can be mixed with the Calcium chloride. Magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) cannot be mixed with Calcium chloride, but Magnesium chloride CAN be mixed with Calcium chloride. Are you using a Mg chloride/sulfate mix? I use a chloride/sulfate mix, and I'll explain below how I mix the parts.

Just to clear confusion, There is no "123" attached to the name of the Components Strong. Components Strong is a 4x 50mL bottle set that is only the micro/trace elements that are added to Parts 1, 2, and 3. Components 1+2+3+ is the pre-mixed 3x 5L jug set that is all-inclusive with macro, micro, and trace elements.

According to Triton, the AF method is low in sulfate which isn't surprising because they are using only Mg chloride, and no Mg sulfate. To remedy this, I mix it the following way:

Part 1:
Calcium chloride
Component Strong bottles #1 and #2

Part 2:
Sodium carbonate (the AF KH Buffer product is bicarbonate btw, so I bake it)
Components Strong bottle #3

Part 3:
AF Reef Mineral
Components Strong bottle #4

Part 4:
5:3 mix of Mg chloride:Mg sulfate

One last thing, as with all balling methods (including balling lite methods) where micro and trace elements are being added, all parts must be dosed equally. When there is an imbalance, such as alk is getting low, then you must manually add some plain sodium bicarb to bump it up. You do not adjust the alk doser head to be higher than the other doser heads.



The balling as in the Components 1+2+3+? The salt mix is just salt mix. It has lower alkalinity than a lot of mixes - usually around 7.5-8.5 for the plain Reef Salt. It does mix VERY easily and very quickly which I find is great. It's the fastest mixing salt I've ever used. All 3 of the AF salts mix fast like this. AF recommends mixing for at least 15 minutes. IMO, as long as you have a big pump to mix aggressively, the saltwater is usable in probably 5 mins.



I totally agree that the AF system is much milder than Zeovit.



The Components are all the same strength provided you mix them up as directed. So the Components 1+2+3+ is the same strength as the "mix it yourself" version using the dry powders and adding the Components Strong.

That said, the Aquaforest Components are REALLY close to the strength of Randy's Recipe #2. RR#2 uses 78.16 grams sodium bicarbonate to make 1L of alkalinity solution. Aquaforest uses 80 grams per 1L.

Randy's Recipe #1 is twice the strength of Randy's Recipe #2. I'm not sure if there may be issues with the micro/trace elements in the AF system if the saturation was doubled.



Yes, the Reef Mineral is what is often referred to in other method as "sodium chloride free salt". The addition of this part helps prevent elevated sodium and chloride due to using so much calcium and magnesium chloride.

Question: I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly but you said you don't add the mag to component 1 like Aquaforest suggested and instead you mix a 4th component so to speak containing mg chloride and sulfate to help remedy the chloride imbalance? But further down you mentioned the purpose of the mineral salt is to help elevate to chloride imbalance. So in essence aren't you creating a sulphate imbalance by adding mg sulphate and mineral salt? If I'm missing something please correct me. I'm wondering if I should be dosing a balanced mg separately as well since I'm dosing almost 240ml per day of comp1,2&3.

P.S. nice write up!

 

[bif24701]

It sounds like you have it balanced right now, but instead of adding KNO3, reduce the vinegar! You're using vinegar to REDUCE nitrate, so it makes sense to back off of it to INCREASE nitrate, right?



I'm not familiar with Vibrant, but this thread (http://www.*********.com/threads/vibrant-liquid-aquarium-cleaner-discussion-thread.271428/) tells me that Vibrant is mainly bacteria along with a small amount of bacteria foods. Phosphate Rx is simply a Lanthanum chloride product for binding phosphate.



So to achieve what you want, you adjust the vinegar so you have SOME nitrate, not too much, not too little. Then you use the Phosphate Rx the same way, just enough to keep PO4 in a good range - not too much, not too little.



In the case of Aquaforest, replace the vinegar with AF NP Pro, Areplace the Phosphate Rx to AF Phosphate Minus, and the Vibrant seems to be similar to AF ProBioS. Just a different way to do the same thing.

Things are balanced well right now. In fact things are going really well, for now. However some corals are growing rapidly and I'll soon have to increase my daily ALK/cal and Kalk won't be able to keep up.

Like this monti has just exploded, lol.


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[Myka]

FM Balling Light is designed to have each element dosed based on the requirements of the tank.

Sorry, you are correct. I forgot about that one. I used FM Balling Lite for a few years. It is mixed to saturation, so the calcium part is much, much stronger than the alkalinity part. I did like that system. That is the first balling system I used.

I may have miss spoke, initially I had to add potassium nitrate but that was months ago.

Yes, I figured that.

Question: I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly but you said you don't add the mag to component 1 like Aquaforest suggested and instead you mix a 4th component so to speak containing mg chloride and sulfate to help remedy the chloride imbalance? But further down you mentioned the purpose of the mineral salt is to help elevate to chloride imbalance. So in essence aren't you creating a sulphate imbalance by adding mg sulphate and mineral salt? If I'm missing something please correct me. I'm wondering if I should be dosing a balanced mg separately as well since I'm dosing almost 240ml per day of comp1,2&3.

P.S. nice write up!

In the Triton testing of my tank sulfate was very, very low. Triton tested sulfate in my tank at 509 mg/L where it should be 900 mg/L. Unfortunately Triton doesn't test chloride, but sodium was right on target. It's fairly easy to assume that because sulfate was so low that chloride would be high. I'm not sure if that is the correct assumption, but I do know that replacing Mg chloride with Mg sulfate will increase the sulfate.

I asked Aquaforest, and after several months of harassing them "Where is the sulfate?", and after a whole lot of tire kicking I received a vague answer. So I fixed it myself by using the Mg sulfate. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2596795

Things are balanced well right now. In fact things are going really well, for now. However some corals are growing rapidly and I'll soon have to increase my daily ALK/cal and Kalk won't be able to keep up.

Like this monti has just exploded, lol.

Good!

 

[Geeray]

Myka,

I've been running the Comp 1,2,3 since June 2016 so I'm due for a triton test. I appreciate the info.

 

[Myka]

Myka,

I've been running the Comp 1,2,3 since June 2016 so I'm due for a triton test. I appreciate the info.

Please post up some results!

I'm due for another Triton test too.

 

[drawman]

First of all, I want to say that I don't think bacteria-driven systems of any brand should be in the hands of novice reef keepers because it takes a fair bit of know-how to recognize when you're messing things up.

Second, Aquaforest is a good option for novice reef keepers because regardless of it's poor presentation it is actually a very easy system to use. I do recommend that novice reef keepers stay away from the Coral A, B, V, E and also the NP Pro and bacteria products. Novice keepers should simply use the Components for dosing Ca, alk, Mg and micro/trace. If they need nutrient reduction, I find biopellets a better option for novice keepers.

FWIW, I've been using the Aquaforest Components since April last year. I used the A, B, V, E for a few months, but didn't get much for results. Now I just use the Components (see below) and Zeovit Pohl's Xtra (ammonia, nitrate, and aminos). I add some ProBioS once a week or so because I have it, not because I think it does anything. :lol: I don't use any type of nutrient reducer besides the skimmer and waterchanges. I use the Probiotic salt on my own tank. I use the Reef Salt and Sea Salt on several client tanks.



Kind of. You would need to also buy the AF Reef Mineral, and if you're using Mg sulfate (epsom salt) you will need to adjust mixing.

With AF, they use Magnesium chloride only, so it can be mixed with the Calcium chloride. Magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) cannot be mixed with Calcium chloride, but Magnesium chloride CAN be mixed with Calcium chloride. Are you using a Mg chloride/sulfate mix? I use a chloride/sulfate mix, and I'll explain below how I mix the parts.

Just to clear confusion, There is no "123" attached to the name of the Components Strong. Components Strong is a 4x 50mL bottle set that is only the micro/trace elements that are added to Parts 1, 2, and 3. Components 1+2+3+ is the pre-mixed 3x 5L jug set that is all-inclusive with macro, micro, and trace elements.

According to Triton, the AF method is low in sulfate which isn't surprising because they are using only Mg chloride, and no Mg sulfate. To remedy this, I mix it the following way:

Part 1:
Calcium chloride
Component Strong bottles #1 and #2

Part 2:
Sodium carbonate (the AF KH Buffer product is bicarbonate btw, so I bake it)
Components Strong bottle #3

Part 3:
AF Reef Mineral
Components Strong bottle #4

Part 4:
5:3 mix of Mg chloride:Mg sulfate

One last thing, as with all balling methods (including balling lite methods) where micro and trace elements are being added, all parts must be dosed equally. When there is an imbalance, such as alk is getting low, then you must manually add some plain sodium bicarb to bump it up. You do not adjust the alk doser head to be higher than the other doser heads.



The balling as in the Components 1+2+3+? The salt mix is just salt mix. It has lower alkalinity than a lot of mixes - usually around 7.5-8.5 for the plain Reef Salt. It does mix VERY easily and very quickly which I find is great. It's the fastest mixing salt I've ever used. All 3 of the AF salts mix fast like this. AF recommends mixing for at least 15 minutes. IMO, as long as you have a big pump to mix aggressively, the saltwater is usable in probably 5 mins.



I totally agree that the AF system is much milder than Zeovit.



The Components are all the same strength provided you mix them up as directed. So the Components 1+2+3+ is the same strength as the "mix it yourself" version using the dry powders and adding the Components Strong.

That said, the Aquaforest Components are REALLY close to the strength of Randy's Recipe #2. RR#2 uses 78.16 grams sodium bicarbonate to make 1L of alkalinity solution. Aquaforest uses 80 grams per 1L.

Randy's Recipe #1 is twice the strength of Randy's Recipe #2. I'm not sure if there may be issues with the micro/trace elements in the AF system if the saturation was doubled.



Yes, the Reef Mineral is what is often referred to in other method as "sodium chloride free salt". The addition of this part helps prevent elevated sodium and chloride due to using so much calcium and magnesium chloride.

Glad to hear someone is using components strong #3 with sodium carbonate (not bicarbonate). Did you notice any precipitate or otherwise unexpected results? You might have given me enough confidence to get off my *** and finally do the same :beer: