Aquaculture software

[rsman]

hehehe

actually have project open right now, didnt draw the connection, but hey why not

this isnt going to be a HUGE database no matter how you work it a little redundancy here or there isnt going to kill much but im supposed to be working so I can go home before midnight even though this is way more fun

 

[NicoleC]

My concerns about redundancy are multifacetted.

First, I'm a DB developer first and a programmer second, and normalization is kinda like opium to a DB developer. I can't help it; I get the jitters without it, and if I'm gonna break normalization I want a darn good reason for it.

Second, as a programmer, non-normalization seems easier to work with at first, but it only takes one logical but previously unconsidered request to make you have to go back and restructure the database and causes more work in the long run.

Third, I detest duplicate data entry. Once a person enters something, there should be no reason they should ever have to enter it again. Anything else is pathetic design. It's a waste of time and effort and this is why some people hate computers.

Finally (okay maybe not finally, but finally for now), repetitive actions stink. If you have to perform the same actions over and over to use a program, that's poor design. The program should handle repetitive tasks for you.

Not saying your schema will require that, but that's what I'm seeing so far. So do your diagram when you have a chance and shut me up.

Now, it's gotten awfully quiet in here. Ignore the geek talk if you don't grok it; this is the normal phase where developers get all geeky and have fantastic but irrational dreams about a product. Trust me, the gritty reality will kick in soon.

Requests and comments from regular users are much needed!

 

[rsman]

well I'm a programmer first and DBA LAST ish !!!


[geek talk goes in here]

I dont see a new fish record just because the fish has been moved, I see seperate tables linking fish to tanks,



[end geek talk]

so how does everyone else label their tanks, I had(well some still are there ) mine labeled in systems FW1 FW2 for fresh water 1 and 2, then tanks in numbers so FW1-1 was the first tank, for FW1 that was really a critter keeper but plumbed in with an overflow and return so ill call it a tank

then SW1 which was clowns all clowns all breeding SW1-1 was a pair of perculas SW1-2 was a pair of clarki's and so on .....

when i refered to my notes id refere to the system being seperated by different notepads, then the tanks in my only semi-orginized state id mix up the tanks by just recording the tank number date and aprox time (sometimes that was dark or light or sometimes it was an hour, for some things i recorded minutes when it comes to specific events often in cultures like

in the folder SC
2 11:30 - 11:40 :
     ran air at an increased rate hoping to clean up bottom
     of culture air rate fast enough to cause foam, no cell
     damage noted culture not cleaned
     *** at next change clean it!

SC is my salt water cultures 2 was nanochloropsus in a 30 gal setup, ran a long time, then crashed big time, but it became clear it was going to i just ran out of time to fix it first.

but how else is everyone recording such events ????

is paper and pen the norm (its how i did it and yep im a geek )

 

[NicoleC]

[geek talk goes in here]

I dont see a new fish record just because the fish has been moved, I see seperate tables linking fish to tanks,

[end geek talk]

Yes, in my diagram that's the tblLivestockTankLink table. You deactivate the row in the linking table, then creat a new row that is active. Physical tanks don't change; livestock doesn't change, they just get moved around, and the linking talbe builds a history.

As for a tank numbering system... I don't have enough tanks to number

 

[rsman]

As for a tank numbering system... I don't have enough tanks to number
which is why i asked how everyone else did it, i mean its just as good to have the tank number be a string, but do you assign some name/number to each tank??

 

[Coraldynamics]

Right now I am in the same boat as Nicole, not enough to number however with Bangaii, Seahorses, and new clown pairs coming online in the next month or so, I will have the need.

What I envisioned are:

Hatch Tanks (non plumbed)
H-1 thru whatever

GrowOut Tanks (Plumbed)
GO-1 thru whatever

Broodstock Tanks (Plumbed)
BS-1 thru whatever

Kinda get the idea...

I don't see a need to separate them further like B-GO1 (Bangaii Grow Out) as they could and will be used for any of the species being bred.

It's early and I ramble with coffee yet....

 

[FMarini]

you guys have lost me totally.......
whatever it is you guys are doing, it sounds great. Keep up the good work.
signed
Confused

 

[Dman]

my tanks go like this:
P1A-P1R (Parent system 1, tanks A thru R)
P2A-P2G (Parent system 2, tanks A thru G)
P3A-P3H (Parent system 3, tanks A thru H)

H1A-H1CC (Hatch system 1, tanks A thru CC)
H2A-H2J (Hatch system 2, tanks A thru J)

G1A-G1E (Grow out sytem 1, tanks A thru E)

I had started running an excel spread sheet to track hatch times and days, salinity, temperature, pH, and daily and cummulative losses. But once I had more than 4 pairs hatcing it got old REAL fast, not to mention that it started to get cumbersome as spreadsheet are only two dimensional and when you need to track multiple pairs over long periods coupled with cummulative losses a third dimension is really handy.

I have saved some of my earlier work if anyone is interested (provided I can find it) and found that entering the same value for things like temperature and pH got to be a deterrent.

I have absolutely NO DBA, C?? or programming experience and can therefore only argue logically.

I'l chime in with my thoughts on the whole web/SA debate when I have a bit more time.

 

[JodiLynn]

Wow. Didn't realize to be a breeder you needed to be a computer programmer. I'm beginning to see the connections though.

I've only taken one computer programming class in my college career and it was Java. So I'm not any help.

It would be neat if it would construct graphs, like Quicken does with your money. But maybe that's more complicated.

Whatever the end product is, I would buy it and use it! Or subscribe to a website to help support it! Seems like a very useful product yall are developing.

 

[jnowell]

I'm still leaning towards the stand alone app (and I'm a web developer). I think if you build in a simple import / export function that the common (non geek) can use, we could make it work easily.

How about a sticky thread here where we can export our data and post a link to the file. That way, in a few months when I decide I want to breed YWG's, and I see that Nicole's data is online, and she is getting 80% success rates I can download, import, and learn!

The interface will likely be cluttered if you have easy access to every species or breeder listed, I would usually just want to see MY data. Then when/if the need arises, I could download someone elses data for review.

In a chart or graph from a web app, a newbies data would be weighted the same as more experienced breeders. I know I wouldn't want anyone trying to emulate my first attempt, nor would I really want everyone to see how many I killed But if I had one hatch where I got 90% to survive, I could export just that data, and offer it up as a very good method.

< geektalk>
if ("Jason" writes it himself)
then ["Jason" gets everything he wants]

else ("Version and work" = Nicole)
then ["Jason" happily uses what he is given]
end sub

< /geektalk>

 

[rsman]

well as a reality and usability standpoint, I shud get the lowest vote anyways, as in all likely hood I wont be adding anything current ever again, so it would just be off my notes. its too late for me to go back on many things and add things that I didnt put in my notes when they happened.

if the data format was easy to work around i could easily get my data to fit into any format I need (custom or otherwise)

I can handle development for web or standalone just fine, if my services are desired in that way.

Id like it so that at least it self publishes to a website certain things including summaries even if that means its just ftping up a static html page it works for me.

 

[NicoleC]

Okay, I have a few non-technical projects for anyone who wants to help out:

#1 - a list of species' commonly cultured -- fish, inverts and food items
I need:
Family
Genus
Species
Common Name
Geographic Origin

#2 - A list of common pre-purchased food items
Name
Description
Manufacturer

#3 - A list of typical tank maintenance items
Name
Description

#4 - A list of typical items someone would want to log - water parameters, etc.
Name
Description

Any volunteers?

 

[rsman]

what file format???

and when?

if you can wait until monday for results ill do #1, 2

 

[NicoleC]

Monday is fine. This is just stuff to pre-populate tables with.

Excel, tab separated text, comma separated text... I can probably handle most anything, though.

 

[rsman]

being a reef group i assumed SW but do we wanna include FW also ???

im working on the foods now

 

[NicoleC]

The software should work for either, but at the moment I am not concerned with pre-populating the tables with FW stuff -- unless people here are interested?

 

[NicoleC]

If anyone is paying attention:

I got a lot of work done today. Alas, it wasn't what I was getting paid for, but I was fresh out of ideas for the paying gig. Besides, that's what they get for making me work all weekend.

And volunteers for lists #3 and #4?

 

[rsman]

im still working on foods, and playing with reorginizing the species, Ive added a few fields at the very least they helped make sure i was getting all the fish I knew I wanted in the list.

mostly just a common family name {clown, angel, dottyback} to just help out a little, keep it or loose it it helps me keep them orginized as I steal from others

and hiding from the boss people as im at work playing

 

[spk]

Nicole,

I will pick up on #3.

Steve

 

[jnowell]

Well, I was hoping someone more experienced in fish breeding would take #4, but since they aren't, I'll take it. I'll probably do the list to the best of my knowledge, and then post the CSV data and ask for additions from the smart people