Aquatronica

[RobbyG]

Interesting, I actually though of this, that it might be some sort of electrolysis effect going on but I asked Psyire if he had a ground probe in his Tank and he said NO so I assumed I was wrong.

Ron can you ask the AQT techs if the Electrolysis is happenening between two of the Bands on the probe itself, and if that is the case how do they propose to stop it? From what you said I get the feeling it can't be stopped since the probe is putting small amounts of DC voltage into the water! Is that right?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6936611#post6936611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RonBuck
They are very aware of the rust issue and are not pleased at all about it. Because not all probes are rusting. They have found that iron in the water column is sticking to the electrode bands and causing this to happen. When the probe is in the water it attracts the iron like a magnet and sticks to the bands because of the electrical impulses it gives to get the readings from the water. No matter how little there is of the iron. Over time it will cause this to happen. The Density Probe HAS to be cleaned, by taking off the cover of the probe and wiped down and scrubbed to get the sludge off it. This will cause the probe to fluctuate readings sporadically. Also this probe should be in an area with the least bubbles. The bubbles will fill the plastic cover and cause it to give sporadic readings as well. So shaking the probe to release the bubbles every so often is a good idea. I would personally make it a bi-weekly regimen to maintain this probe.

 

[RonBuck]

The reason that the update has been so late in being released is, they have made a lot of changes to the program and are having a little trouble translating it from Italian to English properly. We have been told this weekend that the next update will be released in a few weeks. I will try to keep everyone updated as I hear details. Keep in mind I am not their main concern, their main concern is fix any bugs or issues that are happening. I may not get news on a regular basis.

I don't know all the details of the bug fixes, but a major one is a calibration issue that makes PH calibration to infrequently read the wrong calibration number. Meaning if your probe, during calibration reads PH 9 on the the calibration for PH 10 the program will mistake it and calibrate for PH 7. They have made the window between the two larger.

New features with the update.

FUNCTION KEYS!!! I am very excited about this. One touch on/off switches using the arrow keys. The three programmable functions are:

Switch: You may program one or all four of the Arrow keys on the controller to turn off any and or all outlets you choose. By pressing the selected Arrow key for 3 seconds will turn off all outlets selected. By pressing the selected Arrow key again for 3 seconds will turn them back on.

Timed: You may program one or all four of the Arrow keys on the controller to turn off any and or all outlets you choose for a specified amount of time. By holding the Arrow key selected for 3 seconds will turn off one or all of the outlets selected. The Outlet will turn back on after the specified amount of time has expired.(this is a good feature for people that want to manually add top off water.)

Hold: You may program one or all four of the Arrow keys on the controller to turn off any and or all outlets you choose. By holding the Arrow key for as long as you need it to. It will turn on or off any outlet selected until you release that Arrow key.

The next feature is Password Protection. This is great for those of us with kids that are not bad but like to get into EVERYTHING. Or store owners that don't want customers to be able to play with programs without some sort of supervision. This is not totally necessary for all of us, but important all the same. I know my kids play with mine.

I will add more to this as I learn more. Thank you for your patience.

 

[RonBuck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6936783#post6936783 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
Interesting, I actually though of this, that it might be some sort of electrolysis effect going on but I asked Psyire if he had a ground probe in his Tank and he said NO so I assumed I was wrong.

Ron can you ask the AQT techs if the Electrolysis is happenening between two of the Bands on the probe itself, and if that is the case how do they propose to stop it? From what you said I get the feeling it can't be stopped since the probe is putting small amounts of DC voltage into the water! Is that right?

I am not 100% sure. So I will ask and try to get an answer for you about this. I know it is necessary to have the electrical pulses to get the readings from the water column.

I just want to add also. Never run your Density probe dry and plugged in. This WILL hurt the probe and cause it to read incorrectly, no question.

 

[Zaphod]

Thanks Ron it looks like they are trying really hard.

 

[Zaphod]

Ron can you ask them my level sensor program keeps locking. It seams that the level sensor will not turn on the pump sometimes and then lock the program.

 

[RonBuck]

I will, I am going to see them again tomorrow. I took today off. I am bringing some of my equipment with me so we can do some testing. They have found that testing here has produced information for them that they wouldn't get by trying to simulate our electrical system over in Italy. I think they are more than pleased that they made the decision to come and help us out.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6937613#post6937613 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nicholasvilppu
Ron can you ask them my level sensor program keeps locking. It seams that the level sensor will not turn on the pump sometimes and then lock the program.

 

[TheMoneyPit]

It might be helpful to know that Pinpoint has been successful in making a Salinity monitor that gives accurate readings and does not rust. I've owned my for close to 2 years and have never had a problem. Contrast that with the Aquatronica, which I have rusted through 2 probes in less then 4 months. Pinpoint needs no cleaning while apparently the Aquatronica needs to be cleaned; often judging by how quickly they rust. Cleaning this probe 8 times a month is way to much work, again I bought the controller to simplify my life, not add more work and frustration. If I have to clean this probe that much I would just assume return it and start shopping for a new controller that has less maintenance requirements.

 

[Zaphod]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6937729#post6937729 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RonBuck
I will, I am going to see them again tomorrow. I took today off. I am bringing some of my equipment with me so we can do some testing. They have found that testing here has produced information for them that they wouldn't get by trying to simulate our electrical system over in Italy. I think they are more than pleased that they made the decision to come and help us out.

it seams when this is happening you can't even manually turn on the socket.

 

[Zaphod]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6937746#post6937746 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheMoneyPit
It might be helpful to know that Pinpoint has been successful in making a Salinity monitor that gives accurate readings and does not rust. I've owned my for close to 2 years and have never had a problem. Contrast that with the Aquatronica, which I have rusted through 2 probes in less then 4 months. Pinpoint needs no cleaning while apparently the Aquatronica needs to be cleaned; often judging by how quickly they rust. Cleaning this probe 8 times a month is way to much work, again I bought the controller to simplify my life, not add more work and frustration. If I have to clean this probe that much I would just assume return it and start shopping for a new controller that has less maintenance requirements.

do you need to use their probe?

 

[TheMoneyPit]

You have to use their salinity probe.

 

[Treg]

Why couldnt you use a Pinpoint probe on your aquatronica?

 

[TheMoneyPit]

The Pinpoint probe is hard wired into the monitor and the AQT salinity probe has a square 6 pin quick release, not a BNC end.

 

[Zaphod]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6937829#post6937829 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nicholasvilppu
it seams when this is happening you can't even manually turn on the socket.

a little more info it seams to be happening once a day. if I plug the top off into a regular power outlet and fill the tank and plug it back in to the Aqutronica in a couple hours the top off functions properly. Very strange if you ask me.

 

[Zaphod]

Ok so on a different plug the program works fine so that plug must be bad that plug doesn't work at all now what a PITA.

 

[Psyire]

I believe the suggested Salinity cleaning regime is twice a month. Which I think should be standard for all probes. This does not seem excessive to me.

Thanks for all the new valuable info. Ron. I appreciate being kept in the loop. (as a customer)

 

[RobbyG]

MoneyPit the pinpoint probe does need cleaning, you should look back at the manual, it says every few months with Dishwashing detergent and Fresh water.

Also the reason it does not gather rust is because the probe is on for a very short period so there is no time for it to gather rust.


SALINITY PROBES 101
One of the things that I am beginning to realize is that these probes will probably ALWAYS have some rust on them, the reason is that they use a DC Voltage on one side of the probe and pick up the Amount of voltage that travels through the water to the other side of the probe.

Since "Electrical Current" travelling through water can be increased by making it more conductive eg. Adding Salt, if one uses a known voltage reading for a set amount of Salinity you can calculate based on voltage changes the amount of Salinity content that has changed in the water. This is how these probes get there Salinity readings.

Now for the Bad news, because you are sending a DC Voltage in the Water you get the side effect of creating Electrolysis, this will pull all the heavy metals in the water towards the source of the DC voltage and gather them on it's surface. So in essence it's not the probe that's rusting but Iron in your water that is settling on the probe and rusting. Because the Aquatronica probe is "ON" constantly it will gather Rust much faster than a dip in probe that is only ON for a few minutes per day.

I don't see any way around this problem, except if the probe was designed to alternate which of the Metal Bands was Positive and which was ground every few minutes or hours, this would cause the iron to be migrating back and forth between the Bands and most of it would probably get swept back into the water. This is of course theoretical and I can only assume that others have tried this and there is a good reason why AQT is not using a system like this.

 

[Untamed12]

...so what you stopped short of saying....is that Aquatronica should probably modify their system to only power the probe for short periods of time. Take a reading only every X minutes or so and assume that it hasn't changed in the interim.

 

[RobbyG]

Hmmm That might be risky...
That word "Assume" has me worried, say your RO unit leaks 10 gallons of water into your sump.
You see the problem with periodic readings.

 

[TheMoneyPit]

MoneyPit the pinpoint probe does need cleaning, you should look back at the manual, it says every few months with Dishwashing detergent and Fresh water.

I can tell you that I have never cleaned my pinpoint salinity probe and have never had any problems with it. I can't say the same with the AQT salinity probes. That's the bottom line. I'll send out emails to other companies that make salinity probes and find out if they rust. Rust is not caused because you don't clean the probe, and I have a couple probes here so badly rusted that you would have to scrape the rust off every few days to make sure that you are getting accurate readings and even then you couldn't be sure. The truth of the matter is other companies provide the end user with probes that work and never rust. You can apologize and make excuses for AQT all you want but the probes are poorly designed and the problem needs to be addressed. If you're going to use a probe in salt water make sure you use a material that does not rust, seems simple.

BTW I need to correct you on the use of my pinpoint salinity probe, it has been on constantly for over a year, so I think your theory is wrong. When I got my new salinity probe 3 or 4 months ago from AQT, I recalibrated for the first time and it was still dead on.

 

[TheMoneyPit]

I believe the suggested Salinity cleaning regime is twice a month. Which I think should be standard for all probes. This does not seem excessive to me.

I see now that Pinpoint does suggest a cleaning once every few months. Compared to the bi-weekly that Ron suggests for the AQT probe. 4 times a year compared to 96 times a year. Seems excessive to me, about 24 times more excessive.