Aquavitro salt (SEACHEM)

[RBU1]

For a scientific answer I suggest you call Seachem. I will be calling them again today to clairify, however what I was told from them was to mix the salt make sure I am at the 35ppt and use it within a few hours. Don't mix for extended periods as stated on the bucket. If you call Seachem ask for either Amanda or Lindsy. Both people I have dealt with before and actually know me by name.:lol2:

And for the record.....The Cuprmaine bottle also states to treat for 14 days. If you ask Seachem how long to treat they will suggest 3 to 4 weeks......So take what the bottle says however you want.

 

[teesquare]

So we don't bombard them with calls, please post what you find after conferring with them.

I am afraid you took my posts as a challenge to you. This is not my intent. I am sincerely try to accumulate a body of evidence from as many hobbyists as possible for something I am working on.

So - as many as I can convince topost how they are mixing - exact conditions, where, aerating or not, so on...will be very useful.

Thanks-

T

 

[Paulairduck]

I still have 5 gallons mixing and it has been 72 hrs, going to get some final results and see how the corals like it.

the first 5 gallon water change went good, corals open and happy!!:rollface:
ALK 9.6DKH (lamotte), Cal 420ppm (Salifert), PO4 0.05 (Hanna), Mag 1350 (Elos).

 

[teesquare]

When you mixed the salt, were you using a powerhead only - or combing it with aeration?
Thanks,
T

 

[RBU1]

So we don't bombard them with calls, please post what you find after conferring with them.

I am afraid you took my posts as a challenge to you. This is not my intent. I am sincerely try to accumulate a body of evidence from as many hobbyists as possible for something I am working on.

So - as many as I can convince topost how they are mixing - exact conditions, where, aerating or not, so on...will be very useful.

Thanks-

T

If your post about a challenge to me was intended for me...I am not taking anything as a challenge. I have the "been there done that" attitude. I have spent numberous hours on the phone with Seachem and came up with what I feel is a viable solution. I just don't remember all the scientific terms Lindsee used when she explained it to me.

 

[RBU1]

I still have 5 gallons mixing and it has been 72 hrs, going to get some final results and see how the corals like it.

the first 5 gallon water change went good, corals open and happy!!:rollface:
ALK 9.6DKH (lamotte), Cal 420ppm (Salifert), PO4 0.05 (Hanna), Mag 1350 (Elos).

In my expirience small batches do not have the same issue that larger quantites have. When I mix up 7 gallons its almost clear in the 3 hour mixing time frame. When I mix up 50 gallons it takes 3 days to become clear and the ALK level will be low after the 3 days.

 

[teesquare]

If your post about a challenge to me was intended for me...I am not taking anything as a challenge. I have the "been there done that" attitude. I have spent numberous hours on the phone with Seachem and came up with what I feel is a viable solution. I just don't remember all the scientific terms Lindsee used when she explained it to me.

The one thing that I am confident in - is that 30 years in this hobby have taught me that all things change. What we believed was the "best method" a few years ago - we scoff at now.
So - I can't afford a "been there done that" attitude.:lol2:

New technologies, recent discoveries, and discussions like this one can help all of us continue to fine tune, or - even change what we consider norms or best practices.
No such things as experts in a hobby. Experts are paid for what they know. Last I checked, we have a few professionals - but they are usually the ones we all want to go and listen to speak at MACNA and so on. Good to know, but they too can get out of touch if they do not continue to learn.

That is what I am here for! Continued learning.

So - any conversation with Seachem? Anything new from them on mixing, or revisions on the labeling?
Thanks,
T

 

[RBU1]

So - I can't afford a "been there done that" attitude.:lol2:

T

Wait a minute we are talking about mixing salt here right.....:spin1:

 

[teesquare]

Yep....But, I do question things that I have done a certain way for years. Like witht eh salt: Strange to me that they say it is o.k. to add while cloudy..Why? Because until this - I have always adhered to "must be clear" before adding. Why - because any cloudinesss meant that the salt had not completely dissolved, and would not be safe for delicate organisms. Un-dissolved ingredients can chemically irritate, and even burn some corals.
But.....
Hey - I used to think that the ONLY Barbeque was BEEF!
Then, in a moment of weakness, someone slipped me some pullled pork.... WOW!

So, what I really learned from that epiphany was more about:

How we often limit our own growth thru too tight a grip on our "conventionalist" perspective. Don't get me wrong, there are principles that will always be true due to laws of physics or similiar.
But - again, as technologies change - we have to adapt. 30 years agao, who could have imagined we would be communicating in the manner we are doing right now? Just one example.

It is always the simple things that we overlook which can most alter outcomes. And - it is that "over-confidence" that often prevents us from finding the real reason that things went wrong.


T

 

[RBU1]

Man I think you look into things to much.....You are over comlicating an already challenging hobby. Relax a bit.......

I don't recall ever reading to mix till clear.....Maybe I missed it....

But I am sure you will enlighten me.

 

[RBU1]

Here are some mixing instructions from 2 of the most widely used salts....I don't see anything about waiting till clear....

Instant Ocean & Reef Crystals Synthetic Sea Salt
Instant Ocean Sea Salt
Mixing Instructions:

Mix Instant Ocean salt with reverse osmosis or distilled water for optimal results. Tap water can be used, but it must be treated with dechlorinator prior to use.
Stir vigorously to thoroughly mix salt and water. Although the solution can be used immediately, we suggest that you aerate the water with an air pump to adequately oxygenate the water prior to use.
Adjust salinity with an accurate hydrometer such as the SeaTest® Hydrometer full range specific gravity meter. Recommended specific gravity range: 1.020 to 1.023 at 75°F. If specific gravity is too low, add more Instant Ocean salt. If too high, add more dechlorinated water.
Tightly reseal bag to keep moisture out. Be sure to store remaining Instant Ocean salt in a cool, dry place.
Important Reminders:
NEVER mix salt in an aquarium containing animals. In new aquariums, transfer animals to the aquarium only after salt is completely mixed, the solution aerated, and specific gravity adjusted correctly.

Water Changes:
We recommend monitoring your water parameters (nitrates, phospates, alkalinity, and pH) and performing 25% water changes as necessary. To prepare small quantities of Instant Ocean salt for use in your water changes, use 1/2 cup of Instant Ocean salt for each U.S. gallon of water. Mix as directed above.

Reef Crystals Reef Salt
Manufacturer's Mixing Instructions:

Mix Reef Crystals salt with ordinary dechlorinated water. Because water conditions at different locations vary tremendously, a commercial dechlorinator is recommended to completely neutralize any concentrations of chlorine and/or chloramines.
Stir vigorously to mix salt and water. Although the solution of Reef Crystals premium sea salt can be used immediately, it is suggested that you aerate the water until it reaches oxygen/carbon dioxide equilibrium before use.
Use an accurate hydrometer, such as the SeaTest® Hydrometer full range specific gravity meter, to adjust salinity. Recommended specific gravity range: 1.020 to 1.023 at 75°F. If specific gravity is too low, add more Reef Crystals salt. If too high, add more dechlorinated water.
Tightly reseal bag to keep out moisture. Store remaining Reef Crystals salt in a cool, dry place.
Remember:
NEVER mix salt in an aquarium containing animals. In new aquariums, transfer animals to the aquarium after salt is completely mixed and aerated and specific gravity is adjusted correctly.

Water Changes:
A 25% change of aquarium water, done on a monthly basis, is recommended to maintain water quality. To prepare small quanities of Reef Crystals salt, use 1/2 cup of Reef Crystals salt for each U.S. gallon of water. Mix as directed above.

 

[teesquare]

Actually, I was hoping you would tell us hat you found from phone conversation with Seachem.
Not my place to "enlighten" anyone. I simply tried to explain my approach to things. No absolutes, save for some things that we know to be absolute.
But, I think you will agree there are different ways even to mix salt.
T

 

[RBU1]

I am not calling Seachem about this....I was given my answer from Seachem I am following the advice from Seachem and am seeing positive results. If others want to call Seachem they are more then welcome. The important part to making salt is to make sure you have the proper salinity. If you are doing a REALLY large water change then oxygen might also be important. But for the normal hobiest doing weekly 20% water changes mix the salt test the salinty and do your water change. Not rocket science....I know there are several ways to do things. I try to keep it simple...Like I said I have been using Salinity Salt for about 6 months now and about a month ago I started using it cloudy and have had no problems at all....

 

[teesquare]

O.k......
well - I thought you would make the call to Seachem - but I can, not a problem. It may take until tomorrow to reach Lindsey - I know she is in a meeting now.

And - I do believe you try to keep it simple, and - I do a swell.Nothing simplifies things like clear instructions. You can expect a clarification on the mix instructions for Salinity in the very near future.
This is really about about their mix instructions - not Instant Oceans, as they may vary.
T

 

[Paulairduck]

tested the water after 72 hrs of mixing ALK is now @ 7.0, thats not good!?!?!?!:thumbdown

 

[teesquare]

And NOW we are getting back to where this all started - and WHY I was asking for anyone - hopefully everyone - to please post their results, and tell us how you mix.

This is something that I am seeing as well Paul. And - I am striving to find answers.
Please check your PH and Calcium.
Thanks,
T

 

[Boomer]

RBU

I just don't remember all the scientific terms Lindsee used when she explained it to me.

I can explain that with out calling, as it can only be one issue and this issue is the same for all salts but maybe more so for Salinity, which *maybe the best salt out there data sheet whys.


1. If you make a salt mix up to fast the water will cloud, as the local initial pH is high which causes a snow storm and the production of Calcite, which settles to the bottom and will not re- dissolve or preicp out on the sides and bottom of the bucket. Since you are making Calcite you are pulling both Ca++ and CO3-- & HCO3- ( Alk ) out with it = Lower Alk and drop in Ca++ and some Mg++ you may not notice.

1 Ca++ + 1CO3-- (Ak) = CaCO3 = no alk or Ca++ in solution

2. If you make a salt mix up slowly the water will not cloud, as the local initial pH is not high which enough to cause a snow storm and the production of Calcite is very limited = Little or no drop in Alk.

3. SeaChem Salinity, when mixing, is over saturated at mixing more than say other salts. So, the more you let it sit the more Calcite will be produced. So, the quicker you get in your tank the less drop in Alk.

In short, this is marketing hype, for a dissolving issue their salt has that others do not have. You can mix up any salt in 5 min if you use a drill and a paint stirring paddle.

 

[RBU1]

Boomer I don't understand.......How should I mix it up slowly so it does not cloud?

The moral of the story is the longer you let it mix the more the ALK with drop. If you use it within hours of mixing it will be perfect.

Boomer if you can put it in baby terms I might be able to understand....I am polish you know...

 

[teesquare]

Boomer - they will be altering their mix instructions within the near future, so I am told.

RBU1, this is kind of what we were talking about as for the different ways that we get used to doing the same basic thing, but that may not be in our best interest, with a different product.
So, I was not trying to badger you about it - but also did not want to lead anyone - just wanted to gather data.
And to further the dilema -

The moral of the story is the longer you let it mix the more the ALK with drop. If you use it within hours of mixing it will be perfect.
And so - what do you expect of the same mix that you just added to the aquarium?

Yeah..it is a pop quiz!:fun4:

T

Any guesses as to why?

 

[RBU1]

tested the water after 72 hrs of mixing ALK is now @ 7.0, thats not good!?!?!?!:thumbdown

HUM!!!!

Sounds familiar....Now make up another batch and test it within a few hours of mixing it and at a gravity of 35ppt. I bet you get around 10DKH. Like I said you have to use it within a few hours of mixing. It might be cloudy but will not hurt anything. There is a change coming to the Salinity label but it might be a little bit before you see it.