Are Aquacultured Acros a lost art?

[prickles]

Being new to SPS and only reefing for 4 years, I actually want only aquacultured SPS. I have had and still do have some really nice LPS pieces. However, when one dies for whatever reason (crash, buried by fish, etc) they are irreplaceable. I lost many of my SPS in a recent tank move and I can happily say I can replace every single one of them with exact genetic clones.

In addition, I don't feel guilty that I have pulled a unique piece out of the ocean and killed it.

 

[acroholicreefer]

I at least want to see it encrusting onto the frag plug.

That is a good point and it should be pointed out the new acro keepers. It is always a good idea to buy acros that are encrusting on the plug. Still, it does not show exactly how long the acro has been in captivity but at least you know that the coral has proven to grow in captivity.

 

[ChicagoReefOne]

Unless I'm standing in the LFS seeing that coral fully encrusted into their display tank, (or a fellow hobbyists tank) then it not "proven" to me yet. So pretty much everything else they're selling I just assume is that crap shoot stuff.

^^ good reason to buy from the community and get to know your fellow reefers, & RC makes it happen!

 

[organism]

^^ good reason to buy from the community and get to know your fellow reefers, & RC makes it happen!

+1, the one place for proven captive raised corals with no shenanigans is your local reef club

 

[TucanSam007]

+1 to battle corals, adam is a really nice guy.

 

[acroholicreefer]

As of right now, I am only seeing one possible route to take.

We all need to set up frag tanks in our homes to practice aquaculturing if we can. There are plenty of amazing acros available in captivity. Trade with your local club and let's try to collectively take this wonderful hobby back.

Hopefully one day we will see a more strict government policy that will prevent the delicate corals from going straight out of the wild and into a new hobbyist aquarium.

It is time to speak up and make a difference. HTH

 

[gasman059]

As of right now, I am only seeing one possible route to take.

We all need to set up frag tanks in our homes to practice aquaculturing if we can. There are plenty of amazing acros available in captivity. Trade with your local club and let's try to collectively take this wonderful hobby back.

Hopefully one day we will see a more strict government policy that will prevent the delicate corals from going straight out of the wild and into a new hobbyist aquarium.

It is time to speak up and make a difference. HTH

Wonderful thoughts but then again this hobby has no issues, and if every single hobbysists sets up a massive aquaculture facility it still wont make a difference at all.

Its significantly overtstated IMO the effects of collection in our hobby.

Maybe a politics carreer is in your future:headwalls:

 

[acroholicreefer]

Wonderful thoughts but then again this hobby has no issues

Are we in the same hobby or maybe I am the one with issues? :spin2:

Its significantly overtstated IMO the effects of collection in our hobby.

Can you elaborate on what good comes from collecting from the ocean at the rate which we are importing? I know that certain species are fine going from the wild to captivity but the other 70% of the species do not adapt too well.

Maybe a politics carreer is in your future:headwalls:

I doubt it...

 

[dvanacker]

I see TONS of wild and maricultured (we call them aquacultured around here) SPS come into Toronto and I'm certain that 50% or less will survive (probably less). Either due to hobbyist failure or the inability for the certain coral to thrive in an aquarium.

Add that to the fact that frags and especially captive grown frags are much more likely to thrive in an aquarium......really this is a big win.

Is the gasman trying to dispute this? maybe or he doesnt care. IDK......but to me, if we can reduce our impact on the reef in any way, well that is a good thing.

And the win win comes when aquarists experience better survival rates.

Am I saying that we shouldnt bother importing any new corals.....well no. But it would nice if people valued the obvious benefits of captive raised corals over wild corals. That way we could at least reduce our dependance on importing more and more SPS, while also demanding better collection/harvesting, holding, shipping etc. practices.

Personally I have almost all but stopped buy wild colonies (with some exemptions) and if I do it is most likely a frag of a wild colony. I find even frags of wild colonies to have a better chance than the actual colony. Still captive raised trumps all.

 

[gasman059]

I see TONS of wild and maricultured (we call them aquacultured around here) SPS come into Toronto and I'm certain that 50% or less will survive (probably less). Either due to hobbyist failure or the inability for the certain coral to thrive in an aquarium.

Add that to the fact that frags and especially captive grown frags are much more likely to thrive in an aquarium......really this is a big win.

Is the gasman trying to dispute this? maybe or he doesnt care. IDK......but to me, if we can reduce our impact on the reef in any way, well that is a good thing.

And the win win comes when aquarists experience better survival rates.

Am I saying that we shouldnt bother importing any new corals.....well no. But it would nice if people valued the obvious benefits of captive raised corals over wild corals. That way we could at least reduce our dependance on importing more and more SPS, while also demanding better collection/harvesting, holding, shipping etc. practices.

Personally I have almost all but stopped buy wild colonies (with some exemptions) and if I do it is most likely a frag of a wild colony. I find even frags of wild colonies to have a better chance than the actual colony. Still captive raised trumps all.

I don't disagree with the above at all. And yes I do care just stating some valid and REAL points.

Just stating that the little we think we can do by aquaculturing our sps is just simple a drop of water in the big ocean. I still do it and have been doing for over 20 years.

While I agree wholeheartedly that aquacultured is the only way to go, If all of us start growing corals for the next 100 years , no diference at all will be made with our declining ecosystems.

The reality is simply different, many of "facilities" exporters and so on do rely on this industry as their sole basis of income, thus making our proposition simply not feasible.

 

[gasman059]

Are we in the same hobby or maybe I am the one with issues? :spin2:




Can you elaborate on what good comes from collecting from the ocean at the rate which we are importing? I know that certain species are fine going from the wild to captivity but the other 70% of the species do not adapt too well.



I doubt it...

This is very real!
Coral reefs provide goods and services worth about $375 billion each year , can we make this industry stop- unlikely.

I don't disagree at all with the statements that are being offered but reality is very very different.


The United States is the world's largest consumer of live coral and live rock. Of the world's 1.5 million aquarium hobbyists, 1 million live in the United States. Americans buy some 80 percent of the live coral taken from reefs (more than 400,000 pieces a year); more than 90 percent of all live rock in trade; and more than half of the marine aquarium fish sold worldwide.

This is the real issue here and stoping is is no different that trying to stop our dependence on foreign oil.

 

[gasman059]

BTW my reef is 90% aquacultured

 

[acroholicreefer]

BTW my reef is 90% aquacultured

I understand your perspective better now and thanks for pointing out the facts. I think we are all on the same team here. The worst thing we can do it nothing.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Darryl, it is funny that you mentioned that about wild acro frags. I have noticed the same thing, which makes me wonder if it is mainly our flow that prevents some of these coral colonies from surviving in our systems. I have seen some wild colonies that I just shake my head because I know that it will likely die soon.

There are certain coral species that should not be imported as "show" colonies.

 

[organism]

Can you elaborate on what good comes from collecting from the ocean at the rate which we are importing? I know that certain species are fine going from the wild to captivity but the other 70% of the species do not adapt too well.

Nearly peer reviewed scientific study has shown that coral collection for the hobby has under 1% of an effect on the reef. The real problems are runoff due to unsustainable deforestation, pollution, dynamite fishing, warming ocean temperatures, pollution, and dynamiting reefs to make concrete for construction materials. And did I mention pollution? Out of curiosity, where did you pull that "70%" number?

The problem is our hobby is the most visible, which is why nutjob enviro groups are honing in on it, and why misinformation easily spreads that we somehow damage the reefs. I think most reefers, myself included, have at one point had the misconception that our hobby does massive reef damage.

Yes, we need to start controlling or stopping the import of corals like green gonis, carnations, etc, along with fish that have dismal survival rates and move more towards aquaculture, but that's mainly along ethical lines and not scientific ones. Aquaculture will do zero to offset the amount of corals that actually get imported, until you've seen the weekly amount that gets imported in person it's almost impossible to comprehend.

I think we are all on the same team here. The worst thing we can do it nothing.

imo the worst thing we can do is give peta's bs uninformed talking points any amount of credibility by echoing them

 

[organism]

There are certain coral species that should not be imported as "show" colonies.

Not trying to jump on you, but the mycedium in your avatar looks pretty big to me. One person's "show" colony that shouldn't be imported isn't someone else's, so it's probably not a great plan start selectively policing corals based on personal preference.

 

[acroholicreefer]

Nearly peer reviewed scientific study has shown that coral collection for the hobby has under 1% of an effect on the reef. The real problems are runoff due to unsustainable deforestation, pollution, dynamite fishing, warming ocean temperatures, pollution, and dynamiting reefs to make concrete for construction materials.

That is completely true and there is so much that is out of our hands. I am not trying to save the reefs by any means but this is an attempt to improve an already wonderful hobby. I know this sounds "cheesy" but if one new acropora hobbyist sees the advantages of purchasing aquacultured acros over wild ones than mission accomplished.

Out of curiosity, where did you pull that "70%" number?

This number came from my experience with wild acropora corals. Some species do fine going from the wild to captivity. Some species you get lucky with. The rest do not do well in captivity.

Aquaculture will do zero to offset the amount of corals that actually get imported,

I think you have the wrong impression on the purpose of this thread. This thread was not initially developed to discourage the vendors from purchasing wild acros. It was developed to inform new acro hobbyist about the difficulties of raising wild acro and the likely hood that the coral will not survivie.

imo the worst thing we can do is give peta's bs uninformed talking points any amount of credibility by echoing them

I don't know what you are trying to say about peta's bs. This has nothing to do with peta and I think you need to go back and read my original post.

Not trying to jump on you,

well it sounds like you are...

the mycedium in your avatar looks pretty big to me.

Yes, I cultured this chalice and I have high success rates at culturing chalices, just like the next guy. If you cannot culture a chalice than you have not business even thinking about culturing acropora corals. Again, the point of this thread is to raise hobbyist awareness about the success rate of culturing wild acros. So far, I felt like this thread was very informative.

it's probably not a great plan start selectively policing corals based on personal preference.

Again, this has nothing to do with personal preference but is based on survival rates.

 

[gasman059]

Organism TYVM!

Excellent points- I wonder if the wally world guy from the big island will start another one of them yellow tang threads- with all this fule given here.

 

[Pallobi]

all of my acros are aquacultured... jus sayin

very interesting thread...

 

[organism]

I don't know what you are trying to say about peta's bs. This has nothing to do with peta and I think you need to go back and read my original post.

This.

Can you elaborate on what good comes from collecting from the ocean at the rate which we are importing? I know that certain species are fine going from the wild to captivity but the other 70% of the species do not adapt too well.

This is a 100% emotional, non fact-based argument, which is the argument peta uses against our hobby. 70% is an opinion, along with "the rate which we are importing", but you stated them both as facts. It kind of screws us to throw those statements around because they love to quote-mine those things.

The thing is the above and "If you cannot culture a chalice than you have not business even thinking about culturing acropora corals" come off as kind of elitist and make no sense. I can't culture a chalice, but I've cultured acros at 1/4" a week and imported tons of SPS colonies. With ones damaged in shipping I was at about 80% success rate, you take the damaged ones out and 95%+ of mine did great. That's a different number from your 30% success rate, but everyone's different so any percentage at all is just an opinion, not a fact

I agree with you on this thread 100%, but then you started going on tangents that I felt needed a bit of clarification.