Are Aquacultured Acros a lost art?

[organism]

Organism TYVM!

Excellent points- I wonder if the wally world guy from the big island will start another one of them yellow tang threads- with all this fule given here.

I think I basically rephrased your points

And yeah, looking forward to another one of those propaganda moments from the dude in hawaii who's rented so much snorkel gear in certain reefs that they're now lifeless from people walking on them thanks to his business. He left that part out of his credentials, how weird...

 

[r-balljunkie]

All my corals are 100% wild. i dont have a choice. when i was stateside, i would say 90% aqua/frag grown, 10% wild. some wild corals simply arent meant to be kept captively, some do fine. im kind of hitting the learning curve out here what can be kept, what cannot (local pocillipora, for instance) in an aquarium setting. i have access to all the corals i would ever want, just go and get em.....i must admit, ill do 3-4 dives, and not come home with anything.

Also, whats missing from this conversation is the impact on the local economies of some of these island nations. its hard to get outside people to invest in facilities to do coral/clam farming that could further sustainabilities. its simply too much of a logistics head ache. notwithstanding what you get out of australia, its the same old stuff hitting the LFS. trust me, your only seeing a smidgen of whats really in the ocean, species wise.

until you see more ORA type companies, i dont think you can change the markets mentality. hopefully the hobby will keep evolving. now why dont one of you readers hit the lottery, go and buy an island in the middle of the south pacific and set up a coral farm

chuck

 

[acroholicreefer]

This is a 100% emotional, non fact-based argument, which is the argument peta uses against our hobby. 70% is an opinion, along with "the rate which we are importing", but you stated them both as facts. It kind of screws us to throw those statements around because they love to quote-mine those things.

The 70% number is not set in stone and I am more on the 50% range. Just don't worry about the percentage but we all get the idea that the majority of wild acros don't really do too well in captivity without being cultured first. You should also keep in mind about the health of the wild acros that are leaving LAX and heading to other parts of the nation. People in LA should have a higher success rate than others in any other part of the nation. If you don't, than something isn't adding up. For example, a coral arriving in NY is going to undergo more stress from LAX to NY than from Fiji to LAX.

I can't culture a chalice, but I've cultured acros at 1/4" a week and imported tons of SPS colonies.

That's pretty interesting. I know this is kind of off topic but are these being cultured in the same system? These two corals should be cultured in different systems but eventually do well in the same tank once they are adapted to captivity.

I agree with you on this thread 100%, but then you started going on tangents that I felt needed a bit of clarification.

Thanks for clarifying some points from above and I am glad we can have this conversation. I hope people are not getting the wrong impression of this thread. Culturing should be left to the experts and it seems that you have a really high success rate at doing this. I just wanted to point out the fact that new acro hobbyist should not be the ones responsible for culturing wild acropora corals.

 

[dvanacker]

I can't culture a chalice, but I've cultured acros at 1/4" a week and imported tons of SPS colonies. With ones damaged in shipping I was at about 80% success rate, you take the damaged ones out and 95%+ of mine did great.

Some of these imported corals take months to whither away. If you are importing and selling....you are not getting the big picture.

Anyway....I didn't see this thread as going in the conservation direction. I understand your points and agree with a lot of it (I understand we are not heavily responsible for damaging the reef).....but even taking conservation out of the conversation, I would go captive raised in most cases anyway. I like to try my hand at rare wild corals every once in a while but I'm much less nervous about a captive raised frag.

Just for the fact that captive grown corals have PROVEN to thrive and be colorful in aquariums...... Plus its kinda cool to grow a frag from an inch or two to a large colony with a sense of accomplishment. Also its neat seeing the same coral grown in many different tanks....adds a collector aspect as well.

Really I thought this thread was going to be about that aspect....just to re-iterate the benefits of captive raised SPS (mostly acros as others are fairly hardy).

 

[jdhuyvetter]

until you see more ORA type companies......and set up a coral farm

Don't need a lottery or an island, just an extra bedroom.

Also, don't need ORA (but, glad they are around and wish there were more).

Need more emphasis on local frag swaps and auctions. (I will be attending/selling at 4 in Florida between now and Thanksgiving)

Need the LFS to stop trying to screw the hobbyist on trades. Nothing ticks me off more than when I buy a coral for $50 and take a frag back (bigger than the original) and getting an offer of $10 to $20 in trade. A trade like that means you are getting about 10 cents on the dollar (you are trading at less than wholesale for your coral, but still paying full retail on whatever you get).......hopefully, this is just a SW Florida thing and not anywhere else. And they wonder why I stopped "selling" to them......

 

[jdhuyvetter]

Oh, and I am in the process of setting up a 120 gallon, 100% aquacultured reef. By 100%, a mean the "rock" (no wild rock, mostly ceramics) and the fish!

So, OK, I still need ORA!

 

[chrishayes]

Not a Florida thing bud, all the lfs' here do the same thing with one going even further and only accepting "donations" pfffft, right...

 

[Stupes]

Market determines price. When you have more people either tearing down there systems and looking back at the lfs, and or people being successful and looking to trade in some of their pieces, the LFS now has a over abundant supply. Which means they have the leverage to negotiate a better deal for themselves. They are in business to make a profit, and in uncertain times you need to make it where you can when you can. If you're trying to get retail prices for live stock, then your only option is the local clubs and events, ebay, forums, etc. Which then brings you to another set of issues, aqua culture licenses for example.

Personally I am a big fan of ORA they aqua culture in Florida, and Mariculture in the Marshall islands. I would love to see more of this.

 

[jdhuyvetter]

I'm all for them making a profit. And, I have a Florida Aquaculture certificate.

I would prefer cash. 50 cents on the dollar. This gives them a 2x mark up on coral. Only one of our stores is willing to do that. (Or was, it's been about 14 months since I talked to any of the stores about buying corals from me).

So my corals get sold at FMAS, SE CFM, TBRC, PBMAS and our own auction in the fall.

Plus trades with other hobbyists.

And please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to bash the stores (although, I can see where my post came off that way). It's one thing if I only produce 3-4 frags a year. At that, I'd take the hit just to get the corals out of the tank. I've got 700 gallons. Production is a problem for me.......too much! I'll take that kind of hit once or twice if I'm seriously overloaded on something (blue tort anyone?). But, I won't do it every single time year after year.

 

[organism]

Anyway....I didn't see this thread as going in the conservation direction. I understand your points and agree with a lot of it (I understand we are not heavily responsible for damaging the reef).....but even taking conservation out of the conversation, I would go captive raised in most cases anyway. I like to try my hand at rare wild corals every once in a while but I'm much less nervous about a captive raised frag.

Agreed, I think ethically the hobby could still go a long way with making a bigger move towards captive raising a larger variety of species. The problem is those imported corals and fish are just so darn cheap... It is what it is, but if we all put in a bit of effort every little bit helps

I think the main thing is to grow your frags and share them cheap, imo the "lost art" thing is coming around from too many hobbyists with dollar bills in their eyes.