Are "closed loop" systems old school?

rlpardue said:
WOW! I just read the ************ writeup on the Flowwolf. It looks like the Closed Loop just made it to the modern era (random flow, computer control, etc.).

One thing I'd suggest you think about is whether you really want the return pump/s to be so strong. That will mean a very high sump turnover rate, which can lead to difficult microbubbles. Like RK64 mentioned, if you instead do a true C/L (with the C/L drains on the back of the tank), you'll have less head loss. That would also keep you from having to deal with the super-high sump turnover rate.
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THank you. That is definitely fuel for thought. The high sump turnover is a consideration. If I didn't like the closed loop I could always plumb it back into my sump. I will have to think it through. As for old school vs new school, sometimes a blend of both make better schools.
 
fishpureluck said:
That's what I did, I run everything off of one large pump, and all water goes into the sump and back out the 8 returns "old closed loop setup". The pump actually has too much flow for the overflows to handle. I added two more overflows and and still not enough. That's with the skimmer plumbed into it also. If I pull one of the returns out of the water, it shoots 6ft. Works great, and everything has ball valves. I use a reef flow hammerhead. It's flow biased, so if you reduce the flow, you reduce the electric bill.
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I would love to see a photo of how you have your tank plumbed, if you get a chance or if you are so inclined. Thanks.
 
The problem I have with all the internal pumps is heat , I have a 300 with all internal for flow and I am going to go closed loop to get rid of some heat my chiller runs a lot.
 
mhsmith said:
The Flowwolf does look good I hope it is. I have a Reeflo Hammerhead currently and the Flowwolf people are sending me a pump to use with their diverter. I am just trying to figure how I would do a closed loop in the tank design I am envisioning without drilling to many holes. More fuel for thought. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll go back to my graph paper. I now understand why on some of these threads it seems like a year passes before the tank is completed.
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One way to install a close loop is to use the same bulkhead for in and output. This is done by using a oversize bulkhead and running pump return up thru it:)
Flowwolf looks like another cool flow option looks well built, I email for information enjoy learning about new products.
 
I ran an over the top closed loop originally, however i removed it and i am sold on Vortech's now. They provide more than adequate alternating flow and also eliminate the need for flow alternating units, that break down and/or become problematic over time.
The Vortech's even have an auto 50% night mode so fish can rest.
I also love them because they can run for hours on battery backup during power outages.
I run just 1 pump on the battery back up so it can run for a whole day.
 
Hodge1995 said:
The problem I have with all the internal pumps is heat , I have a 300 with all internal for flow and I am going to go closed loop to get rid of some heat my chiller runs a lot.
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But external pumps produce heat too. I have a an old Velocity T4 Pump that I had to take out of normal service (it was on a closed loop in my last setup) because of the heat--I use it for water changes now. Now I know that pump doesn't have a fan which is part of the problem but it was also dead silent because of the lack of fan.

My Tarpon runs hot too and that does have a fan.... The Vortech's were the first pump to solve the heat issue so we'll see if it starts a new trend in pumps. I'd be curious to see a study of heat transfer with pumps like koralia and tunze compared to external but still lower wattage pumps like ReeFlo.
 
After a week of back and fourth emails I will be ordering a Flowwolf 2.0 1/6 this week along with the wall bracket. It will feed 6 outlets at the top of my DT.....four MO FLOWS and two SPINNERS being feed from my sump with a Laguna 4200 gph pump.
A blending of old and new school....lol:blown:
FYI: Starting tomorrow thru Sunday 25% off the new Flowwolf 2.0 with free shipping:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EwFVva3Z6Y
 
it's old school in terms of how widely used it is. Not too many people use it anymore. That's the problem with internet, someone can dig up some really old thread that almost everyone is doing a few years back and think it is current. Times change. FWIW, I used closed loop when I started. I would not do it again.
 
i was going to

i was going to

I'm setting up a two tank system and i was going to do a closed loop system, but then i spend almost a thousand dollars on ceramic backwall panels that i would of had to drill and also i started to think of the extra plumbing, then the extra hiding of the output then the difficulty of finding that quiet pump then i just relented. Plus i saw a wavebox in action in a tank the same size as mine and i was sold. The swaying of the softies naturaly and it got me. So i'm not saying its old school i'm saying its a lot of work, and you have to be prepared to do it and assume and foot the bill. Because more costly arguably so, but certanly to run. power heads are much cheaper on the power and more flexible on placement, because once those output of the loop are put in thats it if your flow isn't good sorry your stuck with it. If you have dead spots your stuck with it, powerheads you can move them accordingly, big advantages. Thats all after initially going for a closed loop, mid transition i changed.Thats my 2 cent.
 
Hi Reefkeeper,
I am deciding on my closed loop, however I am trying to decide the design of the tank. Do you have your returns drilled into the back of the tank or the bottom. I am concerned about to many holes drilled into the tank. Do you have pictures? Thanks
 
Please pardon the aside, but I'd just like to point out that this conversation - as far as I can tell - has not been about "fully" closed loop systems, but is about closed loop "circulation" systems. A fully closed loop incorporates all other systems into that loop. That includes circulation, but potentially adds heat, chilling, dosing, filtration and more.

I've got a fully closed loop 180g F/W. And with all the complexity that requires built in (to remove any given component but not shut down the whole system), I would not build one again with a gun to my head.

Bottom line, this discuss is really about closed loop circulation systems - like in the pics of ReefKeeper64's nice setup. :thumbsup: Maybe in the reefing world, when someone says "closed loop", that's all they ever mean? I know I - for one - have no idea how you could ever run a skimmer on a fully closed loop system.
 
I am not doing a complete closed loop. Only as you said one portion of the circulation system. You are right in that to do a complete system closed loop would be very difficult and complicated to say the least.
 
scolley said:
Please pardon the aside, but I'd just like to point out that this conversation - as far as I can tell - has not been about "fully" closed loop systems, but is about closed loop "circulation" systems. A fully closed loop incorporates all other systems into that loop. That includes circulation, but potentially adds heat, chilling, dosing, filtration and more.

I've got a fully closed loop 180g F/W. And with all the complexity that requires built in (to remove any given component but not shut down the whole system), I would not build one again with a gun to my head.

Bottom line, this discuss is really about closed loop circulation systems - like in the pics of ReefKeeper64's nice setup. :thumbsup: Maybe in the reefing world, when someone says "closed loop", that's all they ever mean? I know I - for one - have no idea how you could ever run a skimmer on a fully closed loop system.
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I find your post misleading, either i don't understand it , or YOUR mix up in your soup. My closed loop was by itself apart from any other machinery , water was collected from intakes went through the pump and went back through several jets into the tank, no interferance . The chiller , heater, skimmers etc where all connected in the sump and used a return pump to go back in the tank after going through those devices all seperate from the " CLOSED LOOP" that is used only for creating waterflow and nothing else thats its purpose, even the pump is outside the sump and dry.Thats why we replace it with powerheads now it more efficent and flexible.
 
You guys are all wrong. Just put A LOT of fish in the tank, I'm talking like 2 or 3 per gallon or so. That way the water moves by the simple act of fish swimming around. It doesn't cost anything to power or install, and won't ever fail or leak. Plus it's awesome to look at.



With that being said, I'm a HUGE fan of my Vortech. They'll be the only powderheads I ever own. Now, that may be a very bold statement, but until something better comes along, I'm more than content with giving EcoTech lots of money. Just my $0.02.
 
wrxreefer823 said:
You guys are all wrong. Just put A LOT of fish in the tank, I'm talking like 2 or 3 per gallon or so. That way the water moves by the simple act of fish swimming around. It doesn't cost anything to power or install, and won't ever fail or leak. Plus it's awesome to look at.
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Forget fish. If you want true biological water movement, try a cat. I had one accidentally jump into a tank once, and truly I have never seen so much energetic water movement. Plus it runs on tuna flakes, not electricity.

Dave
 
Y'know, I had not even thought of the cat. That would most certainly lower the bioload of all those fish. You, sir, are a genius :)
 
fishpureluck said:
I removed the closed loop set up from my 400. I extended the returns to the top of the tank "to prevent flooding" and used the two closed loop suction side to drain into the sump with the other over flows. The hammerhead pumps flow is so high that I got rid of the skimmer pump and plumbed it into the main pump also. Even with the skimmer plumbed in and the 8 returns, I have to dial back the flow on the pump. Everything works great, and I only need 1 pump for everything.
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and if that one pump fails, everything fails ;)

always wiser to have separate pumps for each device that requires one. ;)
 
vitz said:
and if that one pump fails, everything fails ;)

always wiser to have separate pumps for each device that requires one. ;)
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I have a few large Koralia's in there hooked to a battery backup incase of power outages or the main pump dies. That way there will always be water flow in the tank. There is also a small power head in the sump hooked to the UPS that provides water flow in the sump. I tried to cover all of the bases when I set this tank up.
 
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