arrr I don't understand!

[stdreb27]

I am having some issues with my puffer.
For starters I have a 180 gallon fowler tank. With 200+ pounds of lr. He is acting wierd. One moment he will turn a really dark brown from his light tan color. Then the next he will be all blotchy sitting on some rockwork gasping for air. Then he will shacking like they do right after they puffed up and are trying to expell the water. He is loosing is appitite too. The water quality is good, 0 for ammonia, trites trates, ph is 8.2. Temp is 79 to 80.

 

[stdreb27]

bump, help

 

[stdreb27]

what about this thread makes no one want to respond?

 

[SnailBert]

sounds like a water quality issue but your tests are normal. the blotchyness is normal, these fish turn colors. the breathing is not.

how long have you had the fish?

 

[stdreb27]

Several months about 6. Wouldn't blotchyness indicate stress? If it is a water quality issue what other quality should I consider?
Also why are my other fish normal. lawnmower, tomato, lunar wrasse and coral beauty?

 

[SnailBert]

puffers can change color. they do it for many reasons. sure, stress could be one of them, but unless you other fish are picking on him, it's really not clear why the fish would react to anything like this. do you have a kid banging on the glass? are your other fish harassing it? is there an incessant cleaner shrimp bothering it?

 

[stdreb27]

none of the fish bother him they all get along. There isn't really any thing bothering him. He ate all the inverts in the tank. That is why I'm totally out of idea? The only thing I could think is that there is internal parasites or something like that. Lately he has pretty much just been laying on the bottom. And I just want him to be happy.

 

[SnailBert]

could be an internal issue, definitely. there's a women who specializes in puffer care, the puffer queen, but i dunno if shes on this site anymore. they may have kicked her off a while back. pm me for her email.

 

[Sk8r]

Also, a fish with ich may flare its gills and have difficulty breathing, because the parasite is in the gills creating irritation and impeding oxygen exchange. Look him over carefully for bumps, and note the inside of the gills for interior redness or unusual pallor. It might be worthwhile to pull him to qt and treatment if you can't otherwise resolve this. A. how long has this been going on? If new, and alarming, I'd move fast. And B, has any new fish or invert come into the tank in the last while, particularly unquarantined? [Inverts can't get ich, but the water that surrounds them can bring it in.]
Usually ich proves minor or fatal within 2 days, ie, improves on its own or gets thunderously worse, with lethal outcome. It doesn't usually just hang on as a nuisance for 3-4 days. There are, however, other parasites.
List any other changes you may have made immediately prior to his showing this change. Change in lights, schedule, food, water, etc.

 

[stdreb27]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9453940#post9453940 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Also, a fish with ich may flare its gills and have difficulty breathing, because the parasite is in the gills creating irritation and impeding oxygen exchange. Look him over carefully for bumps, and note the inside of the gills for interior redness or unusual pallor. It might be worthwhile to pull him to qt and treatment if you can't otherwise resolve this. A. how long has this been going on? If new, and alarming, I'd move fast. And B, has any new fish or invert come into the tank in the last while, particularly unquarantined? [Inverts can't get ich, but the water that surrounds them can bring it in.]
Usually ich proves minor or fatal within 2 days, ie, improves on its own or gets thunderously worse, with lethal outcome. It doesn't usually just hang on as a nuisance for 3-4 days. There are, however, other parasites.
List any other changes you may have made immediately prior to his showing this change. Change in lights, schedule, food, water, etc.

I don't really think it is ich, there isn't any white bumps or discoloring unique to his gills.
As far as time this has been going on for some time. Previously I thought it was just that I got a lazy puffer. but it has been getting progressively worse.
As far as changes, I've added a tomato clown he had no signs of anything and was healthy as far as I can tell. He was qted for a month. I've also added more lr about 100 more pounds, this came from an established tank no diseases. ummm I had been feeding him oysters, but I got some clams this time cause they were out of oysters.

 

[Sk8r]

wonder if there could have been something iffy about the clams. Being filter feeders, like oysters, they can pick up stuff---you'd think, being intended for human consumption they'd be safe---but switch back to the food you have been giving him, and see if that helps. A food change might be somewhere in the mix. This is ghosty, and I'd bring it down to a couple of questions: When the did change in behavior start, did anything Unusual happen around that time; and what's Unusual in the tank compared to when he was acting himself?

 

[stdreb27]

I seriously doubt the clam thing is the problem he was doing the same thing before I got the clams. I just got them 4 day ago.
I dont' really think I can pinpoint something that started the change or if it really began one day. It is like he started to chill out on the bottom of the tank for a little while. Then it got longer and longer. i'm thinking about switching over to pellets instead of fresh seafood.

 

[stdreb27]

I guess it is feasable that something came in from the lr.
I put the lr in, in 3 waves, I got some when I set up the tank. Then I bought a tank that had about 100 pounds of lr. I cycled it then put it in. But ammonia rose for a few hours. I measured it at .5 ppm. so I put some prime in there and have not had any problems like that since. There was some aspitia on the rock that he promptly ate. With the newer rock it didn't cycle. But that is about the time when he really started hiding.

 

[stdreb27]

but I kind of just thought it was because he now has some really good places to hide.

 

[Sk8r]

Wonder if he got burned slightly when the ammonia came up. I wouldn't really suspect the Prime. I used Amquel recently in my reef when I had an ammonia incident [lost some corals] and had no adverse effects. Aiptasia shouldn't have harmed him. The only thing you've listed that raises a flag would seem to be water coming in with the lr, [possible ich, and if it is in the gills it's invisible], or some change in parameters that has affected him; or the ammonia might have burned his gills a bit, in which case it should heal. I'm not as familiar with his species as I could wish, and I wish someone would get to this case who has a bit more puffer knowledge. Closest thing I can compare him to mentally is, say, a clownfish, which will perch, but not preferentially. I'm assuming this sitting is not a healthy behavior, and that something is wrong, either that he's got a stomach full of bristleworms and aiptasia and therefore is not interested in eating, having gorged himself on new rock denizens, or that he's picked up an illness, or that something in the chemistry as adjusted by the rock is bothering him.
At this point, I'd advise running absolutely every water test you own and seeing if there's anything that leaps out and says abnormal. Alk and cal tests I know are a little out of the ordinary for a FOWLR, but alkalinity can have some relevance to fish comfort---it should be about 8.3, can range higher, or a shade lower; ditto salinity matters; etc.

 

[stdreb27]

Well, I have noticed that I haven't seen any bristle worms lately. I did a few weeks ago discover that my salinity was high like 1.28. After going to a refractometer. And have brought it down. to 1.23. I'm having to top up 5 gallons of water every three days it seems like. I wonder if the changes are stressing him out. But what makes me think other wise is that the other fish are active and showing no signs of any problems.
according to what some have said on here. A puffer resting on a rock or ledge is not uncommon. but as much as he is hiding I think it is.

 

[Sk8r]

He may be stuffing himself. That's one possibility.
Some species are more sensitive to water and chemistry and salinity changes than others. If you don't have an autotopoff and are having to add in fresh all at once, that could be affecting him. [autotopoff.com is a good inexpensive device: it's what I use for my little 54. A Brute barrel of ro/di and a 1200 maxijet and you've got it handled, even with that big a demand]. And you know your fish: I'd say if it feels wrong to you, you're very likely right. If the fish get caught in a salinity change, it tends to cause some kidney problems...they have to excrete a lot of salt or water all at once to adjust their tissues, and this is hard on them. But nothing you say totally screams instant peril---just, as you say, things aren't optimum. Try to think through the last sequence of events and see how many changes he's been through, and whether that could be a problem. Watch those gills: if they start flaring and laboring, I'd assume a parasite and treat accordingly---but not knowing puffers I wouldn't dare tell you whether to go copper or hypo---copper isn't safe with some species, because it is a poison; the deal is that the parasite is more susceptible than the fish is, one hopes. How are puffers on nocturnal activity? Is it possible he's been chowing down at night when the sand teems with bugs and worms, and therefore less active? It seems to me they're more a daytime fish, but I could be wrong. You might google his species on the web and see if you can turn up any peculiarities we haven't thought of. I'm about to turn in for the night, and I sure wish we'd been able to come to some answer, but I think you're onto several things that could affect his behavior, and I hope he starts perking up.