artificial bangaii eggs: egg-tubler or kreisel?

[Baltimore Bryan]

So may bangaii cardinals spawned again yesterday evening. They have bred 3-4 times before that I have seen, and each time, the male eats the eggs on the 4th night (day 4- day 5). I have decided to try to raise the eggs artificially this time. My question is- for those who have done this successfully, or even attempted it, which method did you use (kreisel or egg tumbler?) I have a couple of days to make one or both of these to use. So, which did you use, did it work, if not any suggestions?
Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Bump... Any ideas? I'm thinking an egg-tumbler might be better because I think I would have a tough time getting the flow controlled well in a kreisel. For an egg tumbler I was thinking something like a 1 inch clear plastic tube with sponge underneath and an airstone on top. It would (hopefully) by just like the ones on Youtube if you search "egg tumbler".
Any suggestions please?
Bryan

 

[edandsandy]

We tried the egg tumbler... we were not successful unfortunately...
It will take the male a few times to carry full term... You have to remember, he will go without eating for a minimum of 21 days....
If you can easily catch the male, it would be better to let nature run its course.
Just my 2 cents.....
Best of luck and keep us updated

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

I know it's best to let them do it naturally, I was just concerned because this would be the fourth or fifth time (that I've had them) that he aborts the eggs after 5 days. Unfortunately, the tank is fairly crowded so I'm guessing stress may play a part in him not holding full term. Would it help if I captured him and moved him to the fuge so he could be alone? I think I could probably get him without too much trouble, I'm just worried that the stress of capture may cause him to spit them right away. Maybe I will try to move him, and if he aborts the eggs, I will take them and try and egg-tumbler.
Bryan

 

[reggiepe]

Hey Bryan. You can do it. There is a higher mortality rate when tumbling them, but atleast you are giving them a chance. I have done it and got a few out of a batch of 12 I think at the time. I believe I lost alot due to tumbling too heavily in the tube. Give it a whirl...at this point you just lose a little time and energy.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Thanks for the encouragement. I think at this point I will try to move the male tonight into the fuge, and if he spits the eggs, I will try using a tumbler. If the tumbler fails, I will try a kreisel next time. Or maybe he will hold them full term when he is alone and in peace without other fish to bother him!
Bryan

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

I know this is old, but here is an update: last batch failed, I moved him into the fuge but he spit them out after about 7-8 days I think. I couldn't find them so I couldn't try tumbling.
Yesterday, I saw a lot of courtship between them (must be because it was Valentine's Day...) and today they spawned in the evening. I figured if I caught the male and moved him by himself to the fuge earlier he might hold the eggs longer, but he spit them while I was trying to get him. So I made a makeshift egg tumbler quickly that was modeled off of the egg tumblers for cichlids on youtube (like this): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBUHMt5bYgM&feature=related

Right now it's basically like the video above, the eggs are sort of "vibrating" so they don't bounce too much. For people who have used egg tumblers, what type of motion should I be trying for? Resting on the bottom and just gently buzzing in place, or gently bouncing on and off the bottom, or bouncing lightly around off the walls, or completely suspended, etc.?
Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Trademark]

Basic you want to keep them from rotting, fungal growth. Just think of it as your tube is the Banngai's mouth. He constantly is moving water through there. Try making a cone out of a micron screen inside of a tube that has the air coming in at the bottom and put the air to them. Heavy air might be required. The air should not enter the micron screen just around it. But still moving the water around inside of the micron screen. DOn't forget temp. It will prob be best to do this in the same tank as parents. This can be done just takes trial and errrrrrrrrrrrr. Just think of how long it took to artificially incubate clownfish eggs. Keep us up dated

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Basic you want to keep them from rotting, fungal growth. Just think of it as your tube is the Banngai's mouth. He constantly is moving water through there. Try making a cone out of a micron screen inside of a tube that has the air coming in at the bottom and put the air to them. Heavy air might be required. The air should not enter the micron screen just around it. But still moving the water around inside of the micron screen. DOn't forget temp. It will prob be best to do this in the same tank as parents. This can be done just takes trial and errrrrrrrrrrrr. Just think of how long it took to artificially incubate clownfish eggs. Keep us up dated

Ok, that sounds good. Right now they are bouncing around a bit, but mostly suspended in the water column so they don't get damaged by the sides or bottom. I figure the inside of a bangaii's mouth is softer than the hard plastic, but it still provides surface agitation to hopefully allow enough water/oxygen to pass through them. They are in the sump of the parent's tank, so barely any (if any at all) temp change, and it's a bit more stable temp wise in the sump than the DT anyway. I will keep you updated and plan on taking pics along the way to document it.
Thanks and keep the suggestions coming.
Bryan

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Here are the first of the pictures, taken today (the day after they were laid, actually almost exactly 24 hrs post-spawn):

The egg tumbler

The eggs

Close-up: at this point, I think I can see a white, curved "line" forming at the top of each egg surrounded by the tan/clear "jelly" inside. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the embryo. Always a good sign...

Last but not least, dad:

Bryan