As I move more into the hobby....

[Engloid]

I decided I needed to continue towards everybody's goal of having the perfect tank... so it was time to test water beyond pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I bought a calcium test kit.

If you have read my previous posts, you may remember that I bought this 125gallon tank from a lady that had it set up for a couple years. It had about 200 lbs (full) of live rock, but very little else. It had one clown, one large hermit, and one pseudo chromis. For coral, there were about 5 mushrooms smaller than a quarter and about 10sq inches of some sort of star polyps (the purple kind with yellow 5 fingered polyps). The tank looked a bit bland, actually, but did have some nice coralline algae over about half of the rocks.

I saved about 90% of the water and brought it to my house to set it up, in order to avoid cycling the tank all over again or putting too much shock on anything. That went just fine with no spikes of ammonia at all.

So back to the calcium test kit. I bought the API kit and the directions were not very clear. I had to take the kit down to Aq Marine and compare their results to that of the kit to know whether I had 180 or 320 as a result. Sadly, it was 180!! :sad2:

This makes me think that this lady had very little livestock in the aquarium she probably did water changes nearly never, since the calcium was so badly depleted. I have put in about 6oz of "part A" and "part B" calcium supplements, and I'm still almost at the 400 mark. (Put them in a little each day.)

I mixed up some Instant Ocean and tested it to see what the calcium readin in it would be. I got 280, so it's obvious that with this salt, I will have to supplement calcium no matter how often I do water changes. I have just a couple SPS in the tank, but I do want them to have the proper amount of calcium they need.

Anybody have other thoughts on why my calcium was so low, or better ways to get it back up where it should be?


BTW, when I get back to working, I will likely be on the lookout for a nice used calcium reactor.

 

[reeflover101]

what is the alkalinity they work with each other.
For most marine aquariums, calcium is recommended within a range of 350-450ppm. Alkalinity is recommended with a range of 8 to 12 dKH. Reef aquarists with very large populations of stony corals or with fast growth as a priority, however, may entertain levels somewhat higher. These are special circumstances that indeed have benefits, limitations and inherent dangers and require specific address beyond the scope of this as a primer. Casual aquarists instead can rest comfortably within the outlined ranges and enjoy healthy corals and good growth of calcifying organisms in display.
Ironically, within the recommended ranges of 350 and 450 ppm Ca (calcium) and 8-12 dKH Alk (alkalinity) it is not necessary to maintain both parameters at the higher end concurrently. In fact, it is not practical or easily attained in most systems. In gross terms, high calcium and high alkalinity are mutually exclusive. Alas, too many aquarists get caught up in the roller coaster application of excessive amounts of supplements (randomly applied or not) and skew the balance of Ca and Alk in the system. Maintaining stable and consistent levels should not be difficult at all.

 

[reeflover101]

also magnesium is a big part of the reef aquarium. but what ever you put into the aquarium i would always test for.

 

[Engloid]

I do not know what alkalinity is...dont' have a test it for it yet. That should be my next purchase though. It was my understanding, if I remember reading the calcium bottles, that this stuff would also help to keep alkalinity in check.

I know you guys love when somebody posts up stupid stuff they do when learning... might remind you of when you started.

 

[reeflover101]

lol, I still havent learned everything and i for get alot after over 15 years of this lol

 

[reeflover101]

here is the best guy to read this topic on
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/

 

[Engloid]

here is the best guy to read this topic on
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/

I feel like I just failed a Chemistry class. If I get a reactor, can I get it set up and avoid having to pass this chemistry class and know everything about it?

 

[reeflover101]

if you dont know how to set one up i would have someone that has done it to help you. You can crash a tank. and i would put 10% zeomag in it that way you dont have to dose magnesium.

 

[reeflover101]

also limewater would help use it for a top off of rodi and it puts calcium in the system plus help with alkalinity.

 

[GPhiAce]

Nice back and forth conversation. Where is everyone??? Mind if I add my $0.02?????

Don't get a calcium reactor if you are not comfortable with how it works, why it is needed, and how to work it BEFORE you buy it. Look into Randy's 2 part. It is alot cheaper and easier to manage/dose for those that are fairly new. I listed 2 good links below. One is the 2 part recipe (extremely helpful link) and the other is the reef calculator.

Limewater or Pickling lime is another option to look into, however, I don't know much about it. The 2 part is straight forward and works.

If you are talking about testing, please check your Alk (kH), Ca, & NO3. Those are the minimum that I would check. The Alk is basically the buffering capacity of the system and Corals also use it to build their skeleton. The Ca is used in making the skeleton too. I am not sure of the exact role of the Mg, but it plays in the whole Ca:Alk balance. When your Mg is at a proper level, it is alot easier to maintain your Ca:Alk.

I highly encourage you to monitor your pH too. I did not mention it above, because I have a pH probe, and rarely test for it. There are several pH fluctuations throughout the day. You should attempt to maintain it around 8.2-8.3. It is easier done with a fuge on a reverse lighting schedule. You will also get pH fluctuations when you dose Alk.

You can maintain your Ca:Alk with adequate water changes with a good salt. It may take a little tweeking, but it can be done. I like IO. I mix IO and RC.

I keep my Ca at 420 and Alk at 7-8. I don't test for Mg since my tank is stable. If anything is out of wack, I test it.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Overall, this is an easy fix. Just be patient. The 2 part is fairly cheap too. I suggest a dosing pump. It helps alot.

link for salt mixes
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1589326

 

[GPhiAce]

oh, and why is your IO at 280?????? mine usually runs ~340. try mixing up the dry salt and retesting.

Make sure you are using good water too, ie RO/DI with <2 TDS (strive for 0 TDS). Crappy water can mess up your system very easily, and there isn't a test (that I know of) for the stuff in there.

I have made SEVERAL mistakes in my time, but I learned and have not made the same mistake twice.

Good luck

 

[planejane]

Great advice, as usual, Paul.
Engloid, is the specific gravity of the IO 1.025? if it's lower that would result in lower Ca. I also use the 2 part dosing method to maintain Ca and Alk. You determine the amount of daily depletion of Ca and Alk , by testing daily for a few days, then dose accordingly. What ever you do be sure to do it SLOWLY. Don't attempt to correct anything all at once.

 

[GPhiAce]

Great advice, as usual, Paul.
Engloid, is the specific gravity of the IO 1.025? if it's lower that would result in lower Ca. I also use the 2 part dosing method to maintain Ca and Alk. You determine the amount of daily depletion of Ca and Alk , by testing daily for a few days, then dose accordingly. What ever you do be sure to do it SLOWLY. Don't attempt to correct anything all at once.

JANE!!!!!!!!

MAKE SURE YOU ADD SLOWLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't stress that enough. Especialy the Alk. GO SLOW!!!!! That was one of my biggest mistakes ever. :rolleye1: They need a crying smilie. Mods, where is the crying smilie, I know you are reading this.

 

[Engloid]

oh, and why is your IO at 280?????? mine usually runs ~340. try mixing up the dry salt and retesting.

That's what I did. I took fresh dry salt and RO water and got it to 1.023 and it tested at 280.

Make sure you are using good water too, ie RO/DI with <2 TDS (strive for 0 TDS). Crappy water can mess up your system very easily, and there isn't a test (that I know of) for the stuff in there.

I have brand new filters and RO membrane, so I'm having to trust it is ok for now.

Great advice, as usual, Paul.
Engloid, is the specific gravity of the IO 1.025? if it's lower that would result in lower Ca. I also use the 2 part dosing method to maintain Ca and Alk. You determine the amount of daily depletion of Ca and Alk , by testing daily for a few days, then dose accordingly. What ever you do be sure to do it SLOWLY. Don't attempt to correct anything all at once.

I am at 1.023 now. Do I need to try and stay at 1.025? Will it make controling other paramaters easier?

I was dosing the two part, and I suspect that the calcium had been badly depleted from the water during the time the former owner had this tank. Perhaps water changes hadn't been done in a LONG time. Therefore, as I have been adding the two part stuff to raise the calcium, I was also raising alkalinity...which was already high. I say this because I bought a kit today to test the alkalinity, and it's off the chart. I talked to Mel about it and I think she had some good advice: Do a couple heavy water changes, a couple days apart, to help drop alkalinity. THEN when alkalinity is in check, test calcium. Use pickling lime to raise the calcium, while monitoring both calcium and alkalinity.

 

[GPhiAce]

What Mel said to do is what I would do, except for the pickling lime. I don't have much experience with it, and it will affect your Alk too. I didn't know your Alk was high.

When I said mix your dry salt, I literally meant mix your dry salt, ie before adding water. The salt can settle if it is old or had a rough transit. There are a few reports of having a batch that did not test consistently due to settling of the salt. This was a problem at one point with the buckets of IO.

Sounds like you should be fine. Good luck.

 

[cee]

What Mel said to do is what I would do, except for the pickling lime. I don't have much experience with it, and it will affect your Alk too. I didn't know your Alk was high.

The picklin' lime will not only effect your alkalinity but it will raise the pH quite a bit also. That combination will not be good. I'd stick with calcium chloride but keep an eye on your salinity as it will likely rise as well.

It takes about 6 gallons of saturated Kalkwasser in 100 gallons to raise calcium 50 ppm vs. about 10 tsp. of anhydrous CaCl to accomplish the same goal. Keep in mind that saturated kalk has a pH of 12-13.

 

[Engloid]

The picklin' lime will not only effect your alkalinity but it will raise the pH quite a bit also. That combination will not be good. I'd stick with calcium chloride but keep an eye on your salinity as it will likely rise as well.

It takes about 6 gallons of saturated Kalkwasser in 100 gallons to raise calcium 50 ppm vs. about 10 tsp. of anhydrous CaCl to accomplish the same goal. Keep in mind that saturated kalk has a pH of 12-13.

So where can I get the anhydrous CaCl? I suspect it's not going to be as cheap as the pickling lime.:eek1:

 

[cee]

So where can I get the anhydrous CaCl? I suspect it's not going to be as cheap as the pickling lime.:eek1:

Ice melter, not easy to find this time of the year. Same stuff they use in the 2-part so the LFS may carry it. I have a bunch but I go through a bunch and shipping is the killer. Maybe a future group buy, 50 lb. bags can be shipped from the Midwest but the shipping costs almost as much as the product.

 

[GPhiAce]

So where can I get the anhydrous CaCl? I suspect it's not going to be as cheap as the pickling lime.:eek1:

Look at part one of the 2 part. There are multiple ways of making it. I order from BRS, but have used Kent Marine turbo Ca in the past.

Thanks for that Dave. Yet another reason why I don't use the pickling lime.

Make sure you monitor your Alk. Swings in Alk can prove detrimental.

 

[reeflover101]

The only reason i use the pickling lime engloid is i have a cal reactor the c02 in the cal reactor makes my ph go down. so the picking like only makes since. since It has a ph of 12.26