At what point should I give up?

jglackin

jglackin

New member
I have been on a mission to add ventralis anthias to my reef tank. They are my favorite anthia and I have waited a year with my set up before trying to add them.

I placed my first order for ventralis anthias a few weeks ago (1 male and 3 females) and all 4 arrived dead. I got my replacements on Friday (4 females) and 2 were dead, 1 was floating upside down and didn't make it through acclimation, and 1 was fine. I noticed, for the two fish that arrived dead, the bags they were in were deflated, like maybe they were not bagged properly. The one that made it is in the tank and hiding in the rocks, as expected and seems to be fine, but I believe these guys do better in groups, so I want to get 3 more. On the other hand, I don't want to keep killing fish.

What's the deal? Am I just having rotten luck or do you guys have a high mortality with these species?
 
Thank you for your help. I have 4 more coming on Friday. I am going to pick them up at the airport.

I am going to request that method from now on. I would rather go get them at the airport than wait for them to be delivered by truck. :)
 
Unfortunately, I went to the airport this morning to pick up the 4 new anthias and 3 are dead. I opened the box on the spot in front of the FedEx people. At least 2 of the bags were leaking. When I lifted the bags to inspect, water leaked out onto the counter top. Again, like the last shipment, the bag that has the live fish in it is tight and full of air. The other bags are deflated and/or leaking. Maybe the seal breaks due to cabin pressure at altitude in the aircraft's cargo hold?

I am not going to continue killing fish. These shipments are my only experience with mail order fish, so I really have no standard to compare this with, but I am inclined to believe that the issue is with packing. Something isn't right.
 
Jim,

We sincerely apologize for the experience you have had on your first order of the Anthias from Drs. Foster & Smith LiveAquaria and can assure you that this is not our standard. Though we are not completely sure what is causing the bags to leak, we do not feel that this is due to the pressure change of the airplane cabin.

At this time we have forwarded your concerns on to our facility for further investigation and to ensure this does not happen on future orders. We want to ensure our fish arrive in the best condition and appreciate any reports from our customers as this helps to improve our service.

Please contact us so we may further discuss options regarding your order and what we can do to make this a positive experience for you.

Joyce F.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster & Smith
 
I am going to Rhinelander for the swap. It would be great if I could pick them up there, but I have been told that this is not an option.

I will likely not be ordering more.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12740341#post12740341 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dfs/la2
Jim,

We apologize that we are not able to have all of the specimens we offer on our site available at our facility for the Coral Conference & Frag Swap. At this time we will credit your credit card for the loss of the three Ventralis Anthias on your order.
Click to expand...

Well, I can't tell you how disturbed I was to walk into the fish area of your warehouse today and see 4 female anthias in a holding tank. And not just any 4 female anthias but MY 4 female anthias. When they shipped the last batch, they shipped them early. When I got the e-mail that they were shipped, I immediately called and told them. The person I spoke to admitted that it was a big screw up and had the shipment rerouted to Rhinelander. After the next batch came in dead, I asked if I could just pick them up at the Frag Swap, but was told that that were sent back to LA. Even though the FedEX office at O'Hare told me that they were routed to Rhinelander. When I said, during the tour today, "Hey, those are my anthias," one of the guys said, "Oh, hey, yeah, I unboxed them. We accidentally shipped them to you early." Clearly these were the anthias that were sent to me early, but I was told that they went to LA and there was no way I could pick them up in Rhinelander. Now I am being told that they are being held for someone else.

Lovely.
 
Dunno whats up, this is definetly not like LA. I would call, and ask to speak to a supervisor and explain your situation to them...they always have made things right when there has been a problem...you shouldn't be any different.

Just as an FYI though, that particular species of Anthias is a VERY poor shipper...so I really am not surprised. I know that LFS's in my area order as many as possible at one time to try and get as many alive as possible in an order...
 
jglackin,

Thank you for your response. We sincerely apologize for the confusion surrounding these Anthias. We have confirmed with our Aquaculture Facility Director, Kevin Kohen, that these fish are available and are being held for your pickup if you would still be interested in them. We are sending a PM with information to ensure you are able to pick them up while you are at the Frag Swap and Coral Conference.

Nate M.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster & Smith
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12789587#post12789587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefman13
Just as an FYI though, that particular species of Anthias is a VERY poor shipper...so I really am not surprised. I know that LFS's in my area order as many as possible at one time to try and get as many alive as possible in an order...
Click to expand...

Thanks. I know. They are very delicate. The interesting thing is that I have had 3 shipments to my house and they end up DOA, but with the ones that went to Rhinelander, all 4 are alive. After the second shipment, I was worried that someone would think it was something that I was doing, so I had the last shipment sent to the airport pickup and I picked them up as soon as they came off of the airplane. I opened the box right there in the FedEx office and they were dead.

Getting them alive is only half the battle. Getting them to acclimate to a reef tank and then eat is the other half.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12789673#post12789673 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dfs/la2
jglackin,

Thank you for your response. We sincerely apologize for the confusion surrounding these Anthias. We have confirmed with our Aquaculture Facility Director, Kevin Kohen, that these fish are available and are being held for your pickup if you would still be interested in them. We are sending a PM with information to ensure you are able to pick them up while you are at the Frag Swap and Coral Conference.

Nate M.
Click to expand...

Nate,

Thank you. I got your PM and will gladly take these anthias. I will hunt down Kevin today and arrange for pick up.
 
Good luck with getting these guys home safely. I know this is not normally like Live Aquaria.

It's unfortunate these fishes are poor shippers. I looked at them during the tour today! :) Very cool.
 
Actually, they pulled out all of the stops and did everything they could to make things right. Kevin and all his team were amazing. They only had 3 females and 3 males. One of the females was not 100%, so I only took two females and one male and Kevin offered me any fish I wanted in place of the 3rd female. I really appreciated the offer and believe he would have given me any fish I wanted, but I was perfectly happy just to get the anthias.

Not only did they square me up with the anthias, but Kevin introduced me to the guy that is responsible for 99% of the US supply of Cook Island Ventralis Anthias and we had an amazing discussion on their biology, mortality, and supply. I learned a great deal more about these amazing fish.

The net result is, I got home last night with a group of ventralis anthias that Kevin had been keeping for several months, I acclimated them and introduced them to my tank, and this morning I have a small school of ventralis anthias swimming in the open water column of my tank, like they own the place. I expected these guys to be in hiding in the live rock for at least a week or two. They are out in the open in a tight school and, even when I walk up to the tank, they stay out in the water column. They are not eating yet, that I could see, but they were showing a great deal of interest for arcti pods and Rod's food. Kevin had been feeding them frozen mysids, so they may not be ready to accept any other prepared foods. I am going to start mixing in more frozen mysids into my Rod's Food and see if this will get them eating.

I couldn't be happier. Two thumbs up for Live Aquaria.

p.s. I got an amazing crocea clam in the silent auction. Kevin "upgraded" it from a 5" clam to a 7" clam. It is sitting in the front of my tank and looking like it has been there for years.

p.p.s. It turns out that the ventralis anthias they had are *not* the anthias that were accidentally shipped to me. They had these anthias in holding for a public aquarium for the past 2 or 3 months and it was just coincidental that they were even there.
 
Last edited:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12738552#post12738552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jglackin
Unfortunately, I went to the airport this morning to pick up the 4 new anthias and 3 are dead. I opened the box on the spot in front of the FedEx people. At least 2 of the bags were leaking. When I lifted the bags to inspect, water leaked out onto the counter top. Again, like the last shipment, the bag that has the live fish in it is tight and full of air. The other bags are deflated and/or leaking. Maybe the seal breaks due to cabin pressure at altitude in the aircraft's cargo hold?

I am not going to continue killing fish. These shipments are my only experience with mail order fish, so I really have no standard to compare this with, but I am inclined to believe that the issue is with packing. Something isn't right.
Click to expand...


just a thought
for the bagged fish i have seen people bag the fish tie it up, flip the bag and put in their mouth to place it upside down into the 2nd bag! well what happens is that their teeth can poke tiny little holes if not carefull

just a thought

doubt LA does that but who knows if they real busy
 
jglackin,

Thank you for your comments and updating us on the acclimation of the three Anthias. We are extremely pleased to hear that they are doing so well. We are glad that Kevin was able to provide you with these excellent specimens and hope you enjoyed this yearââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s Frag Swap.

little_squid,

Thank you for your post. We appreciate any concerns regarding our shipping methods being brought to our attention. Several Customer Service Representatives in the call center have been fortunate to go through training sessions at our Aquaculture Coral & Marine Life Facility. During these training sessions they learn about the quarantine procedures, fragging corals, and how the specimens are packaged. We guarantee that the employees packaging the specimens take their time to ensure the health of each specimen and do not hold the bags with their mouths.

If we can be of further assistance, please contact our LiveAquaria Department at 1-800-334-3699, via email at CustomerService@LiveAquaria.com, or PM us.

Gwen S.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
 
Here are a couple of pics. Not great pics, but you get the idea.

n700813076_537475_422.jpg


n700813076_537476_761.jpg


The male stays hidden, but comes out when I feed. They are not eating yet. I have seen the male take a couple of nips, but nothing substantial. Hopefully they will be eating soon. They really look great in my tank.

As far as the packing. What I found is that LA (Rhinelander) packs significantly better than the Los Angeles shipper. I got 3 shipments from the Los Angeles shipper and the packaging was not so great. When I got home from Rhinelander and unpacked my fish and clam, everything was quadruple bagged with peanuts in coolers. It was a night and day difference. First class.
 
jglackin,

Thank you for the wonderful pictures. They are beautiful specimens and will hopefully thrive in their new environment. We wish to mention, that even though the packaging from the Aquacultured Coral & Marine Life Facility may be more sophisticated, shipping from our holding facility in California is monitored closely. We have an excellent survival rate from both locations. Race and Kevin make multiple trips to the California facility every year. We are always interested in hearing comments regarding our products, packaging, and our customer service. Thank you for taking the time to voice your comments.

Gwen S.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
 
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