ATB 'Small' Cone Pan/Plate Skimmer

[hahnmeister]

There is something to this cone shape, and with a bubble plate it gets even better.

It arrived finally (ground from Austria can take a bit). IT was packed in a styro:

The instructions need help maybe, but do any of us really need instructions anyways? Still, warranty info, specs, performance ratings, info, etc. would be nice.

What can you say... this is most likely the first English version ever:

I got a bit: Anton included a spare needlewheel in case modding was needed. I had asked for it with the intent of trying a meshwheel, but he included a really well made one as well. Maybe Ill have to make a 'Matala-wheel'. Note that regular versions will not come with this many. Anton wanted the ability for me to do more testing with the extra impellers if needed.

Im going to skip pics of some things unless people request certain photos in particular, since many details are covered on the ATB site and forum already.

The transition is a simple 'compression fitting'. Its very simple and easy to use, and doesnt leak. Anton includes an extra length of this foam-rubber cord to reseal down the road should it be needed. The fitting is nice and snug, and the entire cup can simply be lifted up and out with less than a 1/2" lift of the cup:

The inlet is 'snug-fit' as well. It is a 1" OD, 13/16" ID pipe that attaches to the eheim with some flexible hose (like a BK deluxe). It stays in place very well:

The bubble plate is larger than I thought. Its about 7" in diameter, and full of holes:

The outlet adjustment is very similar to the BK mini's. It involves twisting the 'pseudo-standpipe' to adjust the water level. The little red 'pins' help keep track of the relative position of the valve, very convenient. FWIW, I am normally not a huge fan of these, as I prefer standpipes. I could easily trim the OD of a 1.5" pipe elbow fitting and add a standpipe to the outlet FWIW, and I was considering it, but after playing with it a bit, its not needed:

As it turns out, the skimmer performs best in 6-8" of sump water depth. Any more, and the skimmer can overflow rather easily, and it will shoot a ton of bubbles out the outlet. The gate valve is almost not even needed. The cone shape allows the waterline to be much lower in the skimmer. A cylinder has its midpoint 1/2 way up, and its water/foam transition line is often near the top around the reducer section. With this skimmer, the cone allows the water/foam transition to be much lower in the skimmer... like a beckett if you will. So the gate valve isnt really needed since the the water level only needs to be a few inches above where the water outlet is in the first place.

 

[hahnmeister]

The pump is an eheim 1260. It has a custom made outlet, and a venturi with a 17/32" restriction, with a 1/4" air inlet:

The inlet has been enlarged so its pretty much an eheim 1262:

The impeller is nice... and pink!:

The 7" diameter bubble plate is a monster. This plate is a true turbulence reducer:

All together now...

 

[hahnmeister]

Now, here is a sidetrack...

Look what else fits right on the skimmer input:

... So snug it fits right in. I might have to have some fun with that later.

The ER pinwheel is on the left. If ER has any comments, I invite them. I hear they have a couple generations of eheim impellers, so if the one I got this summer from them isnt the latest and greatest, let me know!
As you can see, the ATB is slightly shorter:

But the same diameter:

And you can compare face on with this shot of the ER:

My understanding is that it is similar to the Deltec pinwheel, or based on it at least. Could be wrong, but it should perform very similar.
And here the skimmer is in my sump last night:

It had a ton of bubbles flying out the outlet at first while the skimmer was breaking in. But this morning they were gone 100%, and I had about 1" of dark tea in the cup. The skimmer seems to collect hard particulate matter very well too. I actually had chunks of algae and other particles in the collection cup. My last skimmer could collect some 'chunks', but not like this thing.

 

[rishma]

Any more, and the skimmer can overflow rather easily, and it will shoot a ton of bubbles out the outlet.

sounds like the 60 hz is pulling too much for the body. 6-8"is on the shallow side. what is the watts and PF of the ehiem with the NW impeller? A little taller cone could be in order.


Really really nice construction. very cool!! congrats and thanks for sharing.

 

[HBtank]

I like "attitude pipe" and "foam Pot" better anyways

Nice skimmer there...

 

[rishma]

probably a dumb question, what pump is that?

Look what else fits right on the skimmer input:

 

[Ewan]

It's a quiet one; a relative of the PSK2500.

Great pics Hahnmeister. Somehow, I can visualize that skimmer being a good 'particulate' collector. Usually the particulate gets to a point, and hangs in the neck. With the cone, I can imagine a higher velocity toward the foam pot... does that make any sense?

 

[hahnmeister]

So I did some testing last night. I have a ER volute/venturi, and an ER needlewheel. I have the ATB venturi, needlewheel, and threadwheel.

So I did some mix & match:

The ATB pinwheel was better than the ER pinwheel, and the threadwheel really moved into the lead. The ER intake was the better though. Its ID of the venturi was the same as the ATB, so it is no doubt due to the size of the airline. Considering the EU version of the ATB is only intended to do 500lph of air, its plenty. But the US version does more, and so a 3/8" inlet is most likely needed. This will also lower the turbulence most likely. But this was the winning combo:

I also made a custom venturi for the skimmer... much like the Sicce PSK 2500 ones I have made. I bet I can get even higher air intake. I havent had a chance to test it, but later I will.

I will report back later with more on performance, but this is all a good 'first look'. I want to let the skimmer break in more before I judge anything.

Specs of note:
Cone diameter at base: 9-3/8"
Cone height (to neck): 13"
Total height: 21.5"
Neck ID: 4-5/8"
Bubble chamber inside height: 2-5/8"
Bubble chamber diameter: 7"
Bubble chamber height + concentrating ring height: 5-5/8"
Footprint: 16"x10"
'Stock' Air intake (pinwheel): 620lph
'Stock' Air intake (threadwheel): 732lph

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10986225#post10986225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rishma
probably a dumb question, what pump is that?

Its a pump that Sicce makes that has 1" inlet/outlet, uses 40 watts, and has an EAP to make threadwheel impeller, with the same volute (actually slightly thicker, but same cover/diameter as the PSK 2500. Its the Quiet One 3000.

 

[hahnmeister]

I think its a form of turbulence reduction, from the bubbles POV, as well as the water. The water cant spin around as much... the narrowing neck restricts tangential and cross flow in the body as you get closer to the top. The bubbles wise without hitting a flat part, as even a 30 degree slope (from vertical) is still an impact force 1/2 that of a flat plate. Then, as the bubbles rise into the neck, the cone makes a smooth transition. With a flat plate, or something 'usual', the bubbles tend to flow up, then get stuck under a plate, and then accelerate towards the neck with not only an upward flow, but a horizontal flow. This turbulence puts additional turbulence right below the neck, at its entrance. With the cone, this doesnt exist.

The other advantage seems to be the ability to make a single-pass skimmer with almost no back-pressure on the pump. A cone has its midpoint at about 1/3 of the way up, and a cylinder has it 1/2 the way up. Combined with how the body begins to narrow much lower, the cone has an effective water level that is much lower than in a cylinder shape.

Its almost like making a skimmer like this...

Anyways, this puts very little back-pressure on the pump, so you can have a single-pass skimmer with as high an output as a recirc. I ran the eheim 1260 needlewheel for the ATB in a bucket, and found its throughput was the same as when on the skimmer. Kinda cool.

 

[hahnmeister]

One interesting thing: The ER volute/pinwheel only pulled 620lph. Now, according to when I talked with them this summer, these two parts are all that is needed to convert a 1262/60 to their needlewheel, and being that I already had 2 1262s and a 1260, I didnt need another pump... so I just ordered their volute/venturi and their pinwheel. The thing is, I cant get it over this 620lph mark.

 

[dphins]

Is this the nano skimmer?

 

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10986923#post10986923 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dphinsx2
Is this the nano skimmer?

its the small

and it is sweet.

good luck with your new skimmer that thing is nice.

 

[dphins]

I got you, I was thinking the nano and the small were the same thing. Since nano and small are usually mean the same thing.

 

[hahnmeister]

Nah, the nano has about a 6" base, and uses an eheim 1250.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Are they intending to start selling these in the US?

 

[hahnmeister]

They are on sale now. The supply is a little on the short side though as only a few skimmers were sent in the first batch (I think two nanos and two small). But Anton is doing all he can to remedy that situation by boosting production and sending things out.

We first wanted to make sure everything ran fine on the US electricity, since the pumps run 20% faster here than in the EU. You will notice that the pump performs better here than in 50hz.

The eheim 1260 pumps that ATB uses in the EU only pull 500lph. That isnt exactly up there with the H&S and Deltecs which pull 750lph per pump (50hz)... then again, these aren't recirculating skimmers either. Still, US versions pull 900lph (although that Euroreef didnt, perhaps some other ER 1262 NW owners can post their air results), and this one only pulls 620lph. That could be something to improve on.

Still, in the grand scheme of things, considering the bubble plate and the cone shaped body, the air not being so high isnt my top concern... yet. Who knows what Anton might have up his sleeve. Maybe he can make custom volutes like H&S, or enlarge the outlets/do a face mount union for the outlets. Or, perhaps it would just be easier to use another pump all together that isnt so expensive and hard to customize. Quiet One 3000? Red Dragon mini from a mini 200? Custom DC pump? Who knows. The eheim is nice because it runs smooth and very quiet.

Oh, did I forget to mention? I cant even hear this thing running. Pretty cool. Those little foam feet on the pump work very well.

 

[rishma]

I'd like a nano

 

[hahnmeister]

The only disadvantage I see is that the Euro is pulling in at what... $1.42US as of last night? Ouch. Thats higher than its been in a while, and rising.

 

[Ewan]

The US dollar is in no shape for improvement right now.

When my wife and I moved to the US 6 years ago, the Canadian dollar was worth $0.64. We moved back to Canada last year, and in the last month the Canadian dollar has been PAR with the US dollar for the first time in 30 years.

I told my wife it's because I work so hard, that I raised the GDP. I don't think she bought it. The sad part is, all of my work in in the US, and so are my cheques.

Will Proline be handling the ATB units?

-E.