ati skimmer
- Thread starter rickyjai8
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Canarygirl
New member
I run a BM 200 on a net 145 gallon system and my skinmate production fluctuates a fair amount (tank is 6 monts old). I agree that the air intake gets clogged or something because when I quickly plug the hole and open it up again I can jumpstart the skimming again. I have no filaments in the sound deadening chamber, BTW.
Question...a lot of comments in this thread are about too-short bubble lifespan due to reduced surfactent action (lower DOCs)...and I keep reading "...unless you skim wet," as if that is an unsatisfactory solution to this problem. What is wrong with skimming wet? I have always been advised that wet skimming is more effective and that's how my skimmer is set.
Question...a lot of comments in this thread are about too-short bubble lifespan due to reduced surfactent action (lower DOCs)...and I keep reading "...unless you skim wet," as if that is an unsatisfactory solution to this problem. What is wrong with skimming wet? I have always been advised that wet skimming is more effective and that's how my skimmer is set.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Well, there is nothing wrong with skimming wet... its just that depending on the skimmer, there are two sets of circumstances/consequences for skimming wet.
Skimming wet is claimed to provide less 'drainage time' where proteins can fall off their bubbles and drain back into the skimmer's water as the bubbles rise up into the neck.
I will point out though that on a taller skimmer making more stable bubbles with stronger proteins (and higher concentrations) that there will be less drainage anyways, and on skimmers that are this tall, skimming wet can often be done while also skimming dark... makes you think. Skimming wet to most means skimming tea colored skimmate. Yet on a taller skimmer, skimming wet can still put coffee in your cup.
What gets me though is when a skimmer cant do anything but skim wet. What that says to me is that its not so much about trying to keep the foam from draining, but that the only way the skimmer can have anything collect into the cup is by having the waterlevel in the skimmer high enough that you are pretty much just frothing up tank water enough to have something to overflow into the collection cup. I can do that on a skimmer with pure water and no skimmate. I would hardly call that wet skimming... let alone skimming at all.
I think skimming wet is a good thing... but I just ask why is that skimmer skimming wet. If its skimming wet because thats all it can do... then chances are that it isnt skimming so much as just putting tank water into your collection cup. I would rather have a skimmer that I know can skim dry, and then set it to skim wetter... so I know I am actually just getting wetter foam foam in my cup... not just some tank water.
Skimming wet is claimed to provide less 'drainage time' where proteins can fall off their bubbles and drain back into the skimmer's water as the bubbles rise up into the neck.
I will point out though that on a taller skimmer making more stable bubbles with stronger proteins (and higher concentrations) that there will be less drainage anyways, and on skimmers that are this tall, skimming wet can often be done while also skimming dark... makes you think. Skimming wet to most means skimming tea colored skimmate. Yet on a taller skimmer, skimming wet can still put coffee in your cup.
What gets me though is when a skimmer cant do anything but skim wet. What that says to me is that its not so much about trying to keep the foam from draining, but that the only way the skimmer can have anything collect into the cup is by having the waterlevel in the skimmer high enough that you are pretty much just frothing up tank water enough to have something to overflow into the collection cup. I can do that on a skimmer with pure water and no skimmate. I would hardly call that wet skimming... let alone skimming at all.
I think skimming wet is a good thing... but I just ask why is that skimmer skimming wet. If its skimming wet because thats all it can do... then chances are that it isnt skimming so much as just putting tank water into your collection cup. I would rather have a skimmer that I know can skim dry, and then set it to skim wetter... so I know I am actually just getting wetter foam foam in my cup... not just some tank water.
Canarygirl
New member
uh huh. Thinking back over the lifespan of this skimmer, it almost always skims wet, with skinmate color ranging from bright olive green to the color of green tea. Occasionally I get the irritating quick fill of tank-water (in 12 hrs or less). Much less often I get 1/2" of dark/opaque skinmate in a day. I feel like I am constantly tweaking the gate valve on this thing to try to get the skinmate production steady and effective but not over-wet. It's frustrating, for what I paid for the skimmer. But I don't have much experience with other models so I didn't know what I was missing I guess.
Is there any way I can mod this thing to skim more effectively? I think you said use a less effective pump? Somehow that doesn't seem like a good option....
Is there any way I can mod this thing to skim more effectively? I think you said use a less effective pump? Somehow that doesn't seem like a good option....
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Making the neck taller, like mavgi has shown is one option.
Increasing the load of the tank with more fish
And perhaps a combo of using a smaller diameter neck, and using only one of the two pumps on the ATI BM250 (or just using one pump)... its counterintuitive, but you would be halving the velocity of bubbles as they get shot up to the top, and be reducing turbulence. It would be making it more of a Bubbleking in that respect.
Increasing the load of the tank with more fish
And perhaps a combo of using a smaller diameter neck, and using only one of the two pumps on the ATI BM250 (or just using one pump)... its counterintuitive, but you would be halving the velocity of bubbles as they get shot up to the top, and be reducing turbulence. It would be making it more of a Bubbleking in that respect.
King-Kong
New member
If I turn off one of the pumps on the 250, the water level becomes far too low to be of any use.
As it is now, I have to work hard to make it skim wet -- my valve is mostly closed; i'd say almost 80-90% shut off.
If I turn the pumps so they arent sitting on their skirted intakes then I get more water coming in, so perhaps if you turned the solo pump on it's side (isnt that how the 200 is), then practically closed your valve you'd be able to skim with one pump; I just have no idea why you'd want to.
As it is now, I have to work hard to make it skim wet -- my valve is mostly closed; i'd say almost 80-90% shut off.
If I turn the pumps so they arent sitting on their skirted intakes then I get more water coming in, so perhaps if you turned the solo pump on it's side (isnt that how the 200 is), then practically closed your valve you'd be able to skim with one pump; I just have no idea why you'd want to.
Canarygirl
New member
The 200 only comes with one pump (turned on its side).
raising the neck and adding more fish are not viable options for me either.
What would be a good way to narrow the neck?
raising the neck and adding more fish are not viable options for me either.
What would be a good way to narrow the neck?
Canarygirl
New member
Yes, I will do that with the pics. I just cleaned it out this morning so it will be a few days before I can post. Normally I empty & rinse out the skimmer cup 3x /week and wipe down the neck 1-2x/week. It will typically have a layer of dark gook at the top of the skimmer neck and on bottom of lid which I wipe off.
Food wise, I alternate like this
day 1: enriched frozen brine mixed with nori flakes, selcon and/or vitachem
day 2: frozen mysis mixed with nori flakes, selcon and/or vitachem
day 3: Rod's food
Ocasionally dried Formula One flakes
Food wise, I alternate like this
day 1: enriched frozen brine mixed with nori flakes, selcon and/or vitachem
day 2: frozen mysis mixed with nori flakes, selcon and/or vitachem
day 3: Rod's food
Ocasionally dried Formula One flakes
King-Kong
New member
What kind of mysis do you use? PE Mysis? Are they rinsed?
I used to feed PE Mysis pretty exclusively, but it would absolutely shut down the BM's skimming due to the outrageous level of oils that the food contains.
I now feed a home made food (just took a food processor and blended up a raw seafood medley and threw in some cyclop-eeze and rinsed PE Mysis). Mix it until there are still sizable chunks for your fish to chow down on.
Before I used to get around the same performance as you did. Now, I get a quart of cloudy tea colored skimmate every day. It is much more consistant, and I dont have to touch the skimmer. I didnt make this food because of that reason, however -- it was just a great biproduct.
Also, since the frozen food is so varied, it's actually less work for me. Each piece I break off and throw in contains random bits of various shrimps, squid, clams, mussels, etc. (Probably similiar to Rod's Food).
I used to feed PE Mysis pretty exclusively, but it would absolutely shut down the BM's skimming due to the outrageous level of oils that the food contains.
I now feed a home made food (just took a food processor and blended up a raw seafood medley and threw in some cyclop-eeze and rinsed PE Mysis). Mix it until there are still sizable chunks for your fish to chow down on.
Before I used to get around the same performance as you did. Now, I get a quart of cloudy tea colored skimmate every day. It is much more consistant, and I dont have to touch the skimmer. I didnt make this food because of that reason, however -- it was just a great biproduct.
Also, since the frozen food is so varied, it's actually less work for me. Each piece I break off and throw in contains random bits of various shrimps, squid, clams, mussels, etc. (Probably similiar to Rod's Food).
Canarygirl
New member
I'm not sure which brand of mysis they are. What does PE stand for (other than polyp extension 
?
I do notice that after feeding, the bubble production goes way down but it comes back after an hour or so, so I haven't worried about it.
I'll try to pay more attention to how the skimmer behaves after the different types of food.
?I do notice that after feeding, the bubble production goes way down but it comes back after an hour or so, so I haven't worried about it.
I'll try to pay more attention to how the skimmer behaves after the different types of food.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Yeah, with the gate valve version (what is that, version 4 or something?) I can imagine the single pump soluion might present a problem... although you should be able to reduce the valve output enough in theory to raise it... maybe the ATI valve isnt adjustable enough as KK pointed out. I was thinking the standpipe versions would be easier though.
The point of skimming with just the one pump is then you would have less turbulence in that central 7" pipe (is that the right diameter of the central pipe on a BM250? Im guessing based on visuals). Throwing more and more air into the skimmer wont help if none of the bubbles can latch on to anything. It will just froth up the head so you end up skimming out more water. There is a combined 5000lph of air and water being shot up that central pipe... bubble plate or no bubble plate, thats more air per body area than any other skimmer on the market, except a beckett maybe... and its being done in a co-current manner. Thats not alot of time for much of anything to happen. Cutting the flow rate in half in this point... 900-1000lph in a 7" diameter, is at least back down to being in the range of what most other skimmers are. The max air that most other skimmer makers would put into a 7" diameter would be about 1100lph. I mean geez, 2000lph of air... that should have a 9-10" diameter pipe at least, and not be running in a co-current manner with 3000lph of water being shot up to the top (co-current doesnt provide the interface of counter current... the water that the bubble is with at the bottom of the skimmer is likely to be the same at the top of the skimmer).
So if making the neck taller is out, and raising the bioload is out... well...
The other thing you could do with one pump is have the port where the other pump attaches serve as an 'bleeder valve'. Wince the pumps shoot the water and air into a cyclone under the plate, the bubbles tend to concentrate in the center (lower pressure in the center, and air weighs less than water, so water is pressed to the outside by centrifugal force), so putting a valve where the other pump was should in theory only let water out, with maybe some of the bubbles. The benefit would be that you might be able to drop the turbulence in the skimmer even further because now you would have 900-1000lph of air, and rather than the full 1500lph of water, you might be able to get it down to 1000lph of water or lower. This would cut the flow up the central pipe to less than 1/2 of what it was before, and give the bubbles a chance to skim.
Thats about it... Im out of ideas on that one. Everything I can think of so far isnt permanent, so you can play around, and if it still doesnt work, maybe you can resell it and try something else. A BM250 is what... $750 new... I bet you could sell it to someone as is, make most of it back, and try out a different skimmer that is more suited to your tank size.
Heck... a 120g... yeah... no wonder the BM250 isnt working... you have 'overskimmed' in a way.
Or, you could do what I do... I have the skimmer on a timer so it only skims at night from 11pm to 8am. My skimmer is a less turbulent equal to the BM200 (DIY) on a 125g, and I think its still overkill. Im actually thinking a DAS EX-1 might be right on... maybe an EX-2 'just in case'... I can always turn off one pump and it will still run fine. Either that, or I put the 5' skimmer next to the tank and force feed it from the basement.
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