Atlantic or Pacific exclusively

[Opsanus tau]

Wondering if anyone out there will share their experience creating an EXCLUSIVE Atlantic and/or Pacific tank.
Not mostly, or almost,..I mean 100%.( not even an amphipod from the other Ocean!)
I'm asking this because I have never seen this issue addressed,
and a friend of mine just sent me pictures of his 100% Pacific tank and it had a few Astraea caelata,( or A.phoebia,..couldn't really tell from pic).
I asked him, "well what about those Astraea snails,..are they from thr Pacific"?...."oh well they're not but everything else is".

Now this is a good friend of mine, and it's a good thing he hates forums...but just to point out some other flaws about my friend's "ALL PACIFIC" tank, ....he has gotten a few corals from an LFS that I'm sure don't even know where half of their animals come from ,..so there can be all sorts of cross contamination, and he most likely has introduced pathogens from the Atlantic inadvertently without even knowing it.


So back to my original question,...does anyone out there have an EXCVLUSIVE Atlantic or Pacific tank they could share?-thanks-O.

 

[Tang Salad]

I'd guess that many people have all-Pacific tanks, many unintentionally, mainly because of the lack of availability of Atlantic corals.

 

[Opsanus tau]

Thanks Tang Salad,
I just keep hearing this weird thing echoed throughout the trade, through the years, were reef aquarists claim to be doing their part for the environment by keeping these little genetic banks of corals, fragging them, trading and selling,.etc...with tanks all over the world having a Hodge-podge of different animals from different Seas/Oceans that normally/naturally would NEVER interact with one and other...well the same is happening on the microbial playing field as well isn't it?...pathogen exchange out the yang!

So what Marine Park Manager anywhere at any time would EVER be interested in using animals from someones aquarium to re-stock a dead or dying reefs?

Answer; THEY WOULDN'T TOUCH THE IDEA!!!!!

I'm just so sick of hearing people tell me how responsible reefkeeping is.

It's like a cocaine addict bragging about how much he directly supports third world countries.

 

[natan]

>Answer; THEY WOULDN'T TOUCH THE IDEA!!!!!

I disagree. mainly because pathogens tend to be host specific, so most wont attack a new coral (to them) simply because its not what they normally eat. The few problematic pathogens would be so virulent that compleat extermination of the new host is lekely, hence no breeding and no problem ether. And bacteria are so rtesistent that they are unlikely to be specific to any ocean. as they are interconnected.

>I'm just so sick of hearing people tell me how responsible reefkeeping is.

I am with u on this one, big time. For me the only responsible thing about the hobby is to produce more corals than you eqire so that fewer specimens would be removed from the reefs in the first place. The safekeeping of species in hobbists tanks (or zooz for that matter) is nonsence to me.


>It's like a cocaine addict bragging about how much he directly supports third world countries.

Love the comparison as much as i dislike the "consentios reefing" mumbo-jumbo

 

[ludiNano]

Are the oceans and seas not all interconected, the atlantic, pacific, red sea are all one?

We are the ones that separate them with the names.

 

[greenbean36191]

I disagree. mainly because pathogens tend to be host specific, so most wont attack a new coral (to them) simply because its not what they normally eat.

No, Opsanus is right on. No conservation group would touch such a project because it's a very real problem. Some pathogens are specialists, but many aren't. Herpes and Vibrio are two common commensals on corals, but both can also cause disease in corals and other unrelated organism, including humans. Mycobacterium is another. Aspergillosis is probably one of the best examples, though it wasn't introduced by humans. It's a terrestrial fungus that grows in the Sahara. It's recently caused massive disease problems in sea fans in the Caribbean due to dust transported by the wind.

The few problematic pathogens would be so virulent that compleat extermination of the new host is lekely, hence no breeding and no problem ether.

Again, this isn't true, even in theory. Around 1983 some sort of pathogen was introduced into the Atlantic around Panama. By 1984 the pathogen had spread throughout the Caribbean and wiped out about 97% of the Diadema population. The reefs suffered huge algae growth and major coral decline as a result. Diadema was never completely wiped out, but it became functionally extinct and still hasn't made any major recovery since the outbreak.

And bacteria are so rtesistent that they are unlikely to be specific to any ocean. as they are interconnected.

Again, not true. There are a lot of pantropical bacteria, but not all are. Even though the oceans are all connected, there are isolating mechanisms that keep everything from mixing.

Are the oceans and seas not all interconected, the atlantic, pacific, red sea are all one?

They are physically connected, but they are biogeographically isolated. There diversity in different regions are truly isolated by currents, temps, and habitat gaps. Even with islands only a few miles apart, species are often isolated from each other.

Just compare the reef diversity in eastern Asia, Hawai'i, and Central America. Compare western Africa to the Caribbean too. Notice that diversity is much higher on the western sides of the oceans due to the direction of the currents. The larvae don't get transported eastward because the main tropical currents don't go that way.

 

[Kent E]

I think a geographical tank is a cool thing only as the concept of you want a tank that mimics "so and so" particular area.

But the notion that "these creatures don't normally habitate together, so let's not put them together"; is in my opinion absurd. Why? Because corals in a region or for that matter right next to each other don't live in harmony... ever. they are constantly at war with each other for space, food, light, etc... They are trying to beat out the other coral. The coral doesn't care if the one next to it is from the Atlantic, Pacific, or the arctic, it wants it dead and out of the way so that it can thrive.

I'm knitting a tye-dye sweater right now for my corals...

 

[quonnie]

NE Sal;twater Native

NE Sal;twater Native

I wonder if anyone has ever setup a NE local tank. We have some pretty cool crabs, Hermits, sponges, Seaweed and other inverts and fish. The cost I would think would be minimal, no need to heat or even cool.

 

[DSkidmore]

Re: NE Sal;twater Native

Re: NE Sal;twater Native

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13492534#post13492534 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by quonnie
I wonder if anyone has ever setup a NE local tank. We have some pretty cool crabs, Hermits, sponges, Seaweed and other inverts and fish. The cost I would think would be minimal, no need to heat or even cool.

Not entirely true. The tank doesn't have the benefit of ocean currents to moderate temps.

 

[Opsanus tau]

Yes most of those animals would be feeding from a water-column of (comparitivly) dense plankton.
Something you, or your closed system filtration, couldn't ever keep up with,

 

[billsreef]

Re: NE Sal;twater Native

Re: NE Sal;twater Native

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13492534#post13492534 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by quonnie
I wonder if anyone has ever setup a NE local tank. We have some pretty cool crabs, Hermits, sponges, Seaweed and other inverts and fish. The cost I would think would be minimal, no need to heat or even cool.

Yup, plenty of cool critters that will do well in room temperature aquariums that can be found in the NE. Like with critters from anywhere, you need to be wise in your choices. Some do well, some need extra TLC, some do require cooler than room temp water, and some just don't do well at all.

Currently I've got two local tanks running, one is my daughters, and one in my office at the lab.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

It is absolutely true that reef keeping has nothing to do with conservation. Our corals will never be replanted in the oceans. But, I guess I feel the same way I do about zoos in regards to this: better that they exist somewhere than becoming completely extinct, which is very unfortunately quite likely in the next few decades. Now, if the collection itself is what is causing the extinction, then that is not right. I don't think this is the case with the vast majority of corals though. Even so, I try to buy aquacultured corals and fish as much as possible.

 

[Kent E]

This is getting off topic, but I'll respond... Things have been going extinct for a while now. There were these things called dinosaurs and a really big shark called meglodon. But this point is moot because we've got:

7 years, 3 months, 20 days, 7 hours, 18 minutes, 47 seconds as of this post according to the global warming doomsday clock.

 

[DeadlyMuffin]

While I agree that it is very unlikely that hobbyist grown corals will be reintroduced into the wild due to fears of cross contamination, I think that the real contribution of the reef keeping community is being overlooked.

Any captive rearing project (think California Condors but with corals) will use and build upon the coral growing techniques that have been developed by hobbyists. While the actual corals may never end up back in the ocean, the techniques and strategies used to keep them alive in captivity can definitely be used in future reef recovery projects.

Although some people are loathe to admit it, this has definitely happened with birds. The techniques developed by hobbyist bird breeders are a huge factor behind the success of captive breeding programs.