ATO configuration suggestions

[Capt_Cully]

I've got a Reef Fanatic ATO and a JBJ ATO. I'm trying to configure them in a way that will be a double, double safe guard against one of them failing and getting stuck in the "on" position.

It won't flood my tank, but it could dilute the snot out of it by adding 30 gallons of RO all at once if it was stuck. I wouldn't necessarily notice that right away.

 

[Eastamherstbias]

I had the JBJ ATO and it malfunctioned once dumping 20 gallons of R/O. Now I use an Apex R/O system but I always worry about the off chance of something going wrong.

 

[jacksonpt]

I'm not familiar with those ATOs, but I thought I'd throw this out there, for whatever it's worth as I'm thinking about similar concerns.

I'm going to use a relatively small resevoir, so if the ATO sticks on, minimal water is in reserve to dilute the system. I'll swap out the small resevoir for larger ones when I'm out of town.

I'm going to use a timer to ensure that the ATO pump can only run for set periods of time. What time and how long will depend on my evaporation rate and the pump used.

I'm thinking about using a dosing pump for my ATO. If the switch sticks on, the pump will drain the reservoir, but at a MUCH slower rate... so hopefully the shock to the system will be less.

Tagging along for more ideas.

 

[Tonynlo]

^ +1


I'd suggest making it not completely automated. Use a small resevoir (no more than few days worth of evap) and fill it yourself as it gets low. If the ATO does fail, it will not be as catastrophic.

 

[Capt_Cully]

Well building on what Jackson said and a discussion I had with Pascal. I was thinking of incorporating my ACJr into the equation. If I set the ATO pump to run for a set amt of time (I think the minimum duration is 60sec) then the ATO would have its 2 sensors to rely on as per normal. The idea is that the controller would create a refractory phase which would not allow the ATO to fire again for a set period of time (unsure of the max amt of time available with the ACJr ). So even if BOTH of the ATO (reef fanatic never failed in 4 yrs and is one I'll be using) sensors failed, the pump could only run for 60 seconds before the controller shut it down and went to sleep for a set period of time.

This will be subject to tweaks and monitoring actual amounts of evaporation as well as pump and plumbing size. It would not help me if I were away for a week, unless I had it fairly dialed in with the evaporation and replacement rates.

Opinions?

 

[naprestsleep]

I have a Spectrapure Power Liquid Level Controller as primary sensor. It activates a peristaltic pump, whose source is a 5 gallon bucket to minimize damage if there is a failure.
I used to have only a dual float DIY kit but one of the floats died. Now I use a single remaining float from it as a secondary/tertiary fail safe. Its set to normally open and is set higher in the sump. If the top off level gets to it that float the power is cut to the Liquid Level Controller(which powers the pump) and my skimmer to prevent the skimmer overflowing due to too high a water level.

 

[jacksonpt]

Sounds like you're essentially using your ACjr the way I'd be using a timer. The ACjr is a little more sophisticated in what it can do, but the end result is the same - not letting the pump run continuously for long periods of time should the ATO ever malfunction.

The thing I struggle with is that these are all ways to lessen the damage/shock done by an ATO failure... I want a way to PREVENT an ATO failure!

 

[Conesus_Kid]

Some good ideas here.

If it were me, I would use a small (5 gallon) reservoir w/ and ATO that feeds the evaporation from the sump. I would use the second ATO and timer/AC Jr. to fill the small reservoir.

With this system, if your sump ATO fails, the most that dumps in is 5 gallons; negligible for your display volume. If the ATO that fills the small reservoir fails, you have the timer as a backup, but you also won't have to constantly fill the small reservoir manually.

 

[Capt_Cully]

Yeah an unfortunate caution area of automation is malfunction. With halides and fans going over 200+ gallons with an open surface area 4' x 3', I'm sure ill suffer appreciable evaporation. Peristaltic pumps would also help limit potential damages, but I'm afraid it wont be able to handle the workload. My reservoir is in an adjacent room.

I suppose I could limit the amount of available RO in the reservoir for day to day operation. Thin, like Jackson said, pump up the volume if I go away.

FWIW, the Max "off" phase I can do with my ACJR is 255 minutes.

 

[Conesus_Kid]

No room under the stand for a "mini" reservoir?

 

[Capt_Cully]

No room under the stand for a "mini" reservoir?

Not really. I'd like to be able to incorporate a kalk still reservoir into it, but room is limited.

 

[frofan]

I have a pressure shut off on my RO/DI unit. The RO is ran into a 30g brute garbage can that has a float valve to shut off the output from the RO/DI. I then have one of the following to take the water from the 30g reservoir through a kalk reactor to my sump. The spectrapure pump is connected to my controller and only turns on after my lights go off. This way I keep my PH stable with the kalk from the top off.

http://www.spectrapure.com/St_alc_p7.htm

 

[pascal32]

here is how I have mine:

 

[cuch]

I use a aqua controller !i have level loc auto topoff which has a selonoid so i only allow the top off to run 10 min 4 times a day so it can't flood my tank.on the controller treat it like a light!if you need a aqua contrller ihave one forsale!

 

[pascal32]

for the holding you could have a container with a regular float directly to RO/DI and a tube above in case it ever overflows. This will wear on your DI canisters, I have mine this way and its been great.

If you want the RO/DI to run on a high/low level you can build it yourself using an RO/DI solenoid (available from thefilterguys.biz) and some float switches or get the Genesis Storm pro ATO system which is very nice (and not much more than doing it yourself). I owe a writeup on the renew and storm, just haven't gotten to it. both are very nice, especially with the firmware update just released for the Renew and the one coming up shortly on the Storm.

http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/proddetail.php?prod=01-000156-02

 

[Gravesj1s]

I ues a reefiller diaphram pump,3-6 gals a day.Sits in the basement drawing from a 33 gal kalk reservoir.Ive got it dialed back to replace evaporation ,currently about 1 gal aday.

I just connected to a controller with dual float switches,one for backup.The reefiller pump is controlled by the floatswitches and is plugged into a gangbox similar to a dj strip.That is then plugged into the controller.
The reason I did it that way was to be able to cut off or add either ro/di ,kalk or new saltwater with just flipping a light switch.
Probably sounds more complicated than it is.

Overall ,no complaints here with it,although I almost crashed my tank recently ,I blame that entirely on user error.Everything worked how it was suppose to,I just forgot to shut off and replace with seawater what I removed.

 

[Capt_Cully]

My Reef Fanatic runs similar to Blurry's set up with the primary and back up wired together. ATO fires when primary bottoms out and opens the circuit if the primary fails to open it.

I can, as discussed, incorporate the controller to minimize damages in the event that BOTH switches fail. Could I use the JBJ ATO in some combination for overflow protection should the Reef Fanatic unit fail?

Is this all overkill? I mean, ultimately the reef would suffer, but my hardwoods, and marriage will remain intact....

 

[Gravesj1s]

I dont know Mark if your asking me.Just unfamilar and have no first hand experience with any of the stuff your using.

Off the top of my head ,the only way I can think of using it would be wiring in series with what you've already got,seems overkill though ,imo.

For redundancy,I'm with what the others mentioned.Small reservoir or a pump dialed back to somewhat match evaporation are going to provide ,within reason enough of a safety margin.Just what I think though.
Honestly, when it comes to gagetry,I usally find my self turning to Pascal,hes pretty clever with this stuff.
Good luck-Steve

 

[Capt_Cully]

He's too smart for me. I get confused.

 

[pascal32]

Funny funny you are! Jack a**

Just put a small (3 gal or so) container under the tank along with an overflow protection via uniseal going to your exising emergency drain (go into the top of the T we talked about). Have a float switch hooked right up to the RO/DI (use a T so you can still feed the rubbermaid container). Then use the ATO you have. Use the AC jr to monitor a sump low and sump high condition. Low turns the return and skimmer off for a while, hi turns off your ATO for a while. Also consider putting A float switch in the skimmer collection in case the skimmer acts up for any reason.

Not sure how to program the neptunes. I can do it with a reefkeeper for you