ATO w/ Kalk Help Please

[stricknine]

Im in the midst of setting up an ATO and plan on dosing Kalk in the TO water. Heres the plan (and I have more questions than ideas);

- Putting a tee on my RODI unit with two shut offs: one line to wc water, one to ATO water. [not worried about head loss with the ATO bucket 40' away with water pressure?]

- I have to pump 15' up so I got a gigantic 700GPH pond pump. Plan on toning that down with a flow valve headed up to the tank.

- Putting the pump on a 6" stand to avoid pumping sediment. [is that high enough?]

- Cheap powerhead and heater in the bucket. [do I run the powerhead all the time? Wont that stir up the sediment I am trying to avoid getting in my tank?]

As for the Kalk, I have no idea. I hear there are some cheap pickling products around, where can I find them and what is the recommended dose? Am I better buying a reef kalk instead of going cheap?

Now for adding, correct me if I am wrong, but fill the water, shut off the return pump, run the powerhead, add kalk, let it mix, shut off powerhead, and turn on return pump?

Thanks for any help and suggestions, always have to check prior to adding anything new to the tank!adding

 

[pimpinitup6969]

so your using a 700 gph pump to pump your top off water from the basement upstairs? or is your sump in the basement?

 

[stricknine]

Sump is under the tank on the main floor. RODI/ATO is all set up in the basement. 700 gph pump is the only one I could find with a 15' head height. To mitigate the excess pressure my plan was to reduce the output to a 3/8's od and throw a control valve in.

Thanks!

 

[pimpinitup6969]

IMO i wouldnt try to dose kalk using that pump! kalk has to be added very slowly because the ph in kalk water is up around 12! if added to fast it could do alot of damage! i would just use that for ato and drip kalk into the display upstairs.

 

[stricknine]

The kalk is being added to ATO water though, although the pump is large, it would still only add 1/2Gal or so at a time, 1-2 GPD. I was planning to top it up in the skimmer portion of my sump. Would mix a bit prior to hitting the DT, and catch any sediment that may be sucked up.

Why would you suggest against this?

 

[Playa-1]

I would get a dosing pump or a drip system and introduce the Kalk separately from the ATO. The Kalk solution needs to be added much slower then the average ATO is capable of. A litermeter type of a dosing pump would be ideal for you. You can set it up to dose at regular intervals and dose the kalk right into the sump. The ATO can do it's thing and you don't have to worry about Overdosing the Kalk. As far as Kalk I use Mrs Wages from Walmart.

 

[Alaskan Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14768624#post14768624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Playa-1
As far as Kalk I use Mrs Wages from Walmart.

+1

 

[markob]

Why is it important to drip kalkwasser? A lot of people, myself included, use kalkwasser as top-up with an ATO. Tunze even manufactures a very expensive version of a large Coke-bottle kalk mixer.

 

[THE ROOK]

It's important to add slowly whether via drip or ato isn't really the issue.

Adding a 1/2 gallon at once is likely too much at full strength (2tsp) & will likely send your alk skyrocketing. So you could try only adding 1/2tsp per gallon & monitoring your system. Not sure that you'll see any benefit from kalk if you can't get it to full strength within a few weeks.

 

[sjm817]

You dont need a heater in the topoff container. You dont need a mixing pump running either. You only mix it up when you make the topoff. Let it settle, cover it and use it till its time to mix up a new batch.

Why do you want to shut off your return pump?

1/2G at a time is likely too much. What are you using for an ATO? A good ATO with a sensitive float switch will only allow very slight changes in sump level and add top off in very small increments.

 

[stricknine]

WOW, lots of info and opinions to digest.

Playa/Alaskan, how much do you dose per gal of the generic stuff? Also looked at the litermeter, a little pricey for me at the minute.

markob, I came up with the ATO/Kalk from a ton of posts here. Never even thought it would be a problem. How much and of what product do you dose to the topoff water? Is it an ATO? Tips?

ROOK, I will look in to the sensitivity I can get from my ATO (height x area = gallon). At 2tbsp/gal, what is the recommended dose of Kalk water per squirt (or is it I would be dosing more ATO water than I should Kalk water?)

sjm, I have a spare heater kicking around, and the RODI output I get here "up north" is freezing cold. Just trying to keep the temp stable, may shut it off in the summer.When mixing the kalk into the ATO water, I was thinking of shutting off the return (ATO [return] pump feeding tank) to avoid adding any sediment. I am using a JBJ ATO, but the return section of my sump/fuge (where the water level drops) is 8" x 12" so if the JBJ has a small tolerance (1-2") than the volume may be pretty small.



THANKS all for the comments, glad I checked prior to running it (as always!) Comments MUCH appreciated!

 

[stricknine]

As always, any advice is welcome! (bump)

 

[pimpinitup6969]

Let me re-phrase my post a little bit! you can def use an ato to top off with kalk! the issue is the pump you were using.

 

[stricknine]

The pump is rated at 700GPH at a head height of 15'. At 15' the flow will drop on the 1/2" output to 300 GPH (at 15'). I plan to reduce the 1/2 to a 3/8 (reducing flow even more) and also throw a 3/8 flow valve to again cut that flow. I had to use a pump powerful enough to have 15' head. Trust me, i will not have a super soaker 2000 shooting kalk water into the sump like a firehose!

I am now concearned with all the feedback up there. Is this the right approach?

 

[xian]

I put kalk in my top off. However I also run a CO2 calcium reactor and have a 100gal sump system. My Top off runs an a small powerhead. It works for me. I have very stable conditions.

 

[96p993]

I think the key here is going to be your ATO and how it is setup...My ATO is very precise and I have it setup with 2 switches for redundancy but they are also very close together so very little water comes out at one time. This continues all day so I get my dosing of kalk into my tank but it is done over the entire day not heavy doses at one time. I wouldnt really worry about the pump you are going to use, setup your float switches up correctly and you should be fine. For safety sake I would get it setup then run it with just water for a little while, really dial it in before using the kalk.

 

[stricknine]

96, just the answer I could relate to. Question though, how much do you add at one time? Above posts listed 1/2 gallon at a time as too much (as my assumed dose of 2Tbsp per gallon) but then again noone stated how much TO water they went through in a day, nor the tank size.

I have a 100Gal water volume (sump and tank), and go through about 1.5 gal ATO water a day.

Thanks again all!

 

[96p993]

I am running a total of about 120-130 gallons and go through about a gallon a day...My ATO turns on and off all the time throughout the day so how much you put into your tank depends on where your float switches are. You want to put your float switches in a part of the sump where the water stays as level as possible. Mine is in my return section. Water stays a constant height (no splashing). My topoff reservoir is 6 gallons. I mix 2 tsp per gallon into the water then just let it sit covered. This lasts me close to a week....I have watched the pump turn on and it usually stays on for just a couple seconds. In your situation I would have the pump turn on for a longer period of time because you are not letting much water come out of the end of your plumbing. Look at it like this, my pump when running puts out just a little more then what my RODI puts out when making water...Its slow and steady, which is crucial when dosing kalk

 

[96p993]

couple other things to think about...

Mixing-Kalk/water has a saturation point so once mixed it really doesnt need to be mixed anymore so no need for a power head in the mixture.
No heater...Kalk is pretty mean stuff, Im not sure what it will do to the heater plus the point of this is to get it to dose in small amounts so no real need to heat it up.

Your pond pump...Im a little concerned as to what the mixture is going to do to it. I dont know if it will corrode this internals of the pump. I have seen pond pumps get eaten up by saltwater, just not sure if this will do the same. If this concerns you I found a pump that will work for you...

http://autotopoff.com/pumps/ft1300/

15x12=180 inches so that would put you at about 80 GPH...should be doable to dial down to what you are wanting to do...

 

[stricknine]

Thanks 96, points taken.

My sump is set up with a large intake/skimmer section, large fuge, then to a very small return section (rookie mistake). I plan on setting the ATO sensors in the return area as close as possible, but adding the ATO/Kalk water to the first skimmer section. Let it mix a little prior to hitting the DT. Heres a pic of my set-up;

BOTTOM

TOP