Attention Chemi-clean fans

[dots]

Mr. Holmes-Farley's opinion is good enough for me, but in addtion there is some risks as well which you may want to consider..... I rembember quite a few of you praising it not too long ago is why I bring it up.

This is just a FYI, not trying to start a big debate......

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1044038

 

[funman1]

I used it and loved it. Yes it's risky, but like someone said in that thread their problem was most likely the die off from using it.

I have always used it when my problems are very small and thus very little die off.

Every time I have used it though I use a bubbler to help keep the water oxygenated. Like OP said in the thread he has not too many test kits. I suspect O2 levels were lethal.

~Steve~

 

[pepe.king.prawn]

I think it depends how much cyano you start with before you treat using chemi-clean. I've had good success with no ill effects. In addition to the possible oxygen depletion (which is a difficult point to get to with the number of pumps most of us run), it is possible that chemicals released from the dying cyanobacteria could poison your tank. Many bacteria have a membrane of LPS (lipopolysaccharide) which is quite toxic, and is responsible for toxic shock syndrome in humans. Cyano in particular also produces a gamut of other toxic substances that might cause problems. I think for this reason it's important to introduce activated carbon after the recommended time period.

Funman1: I recently read a test of dissolved oxygen based on air stones, and it seems that air stones actually do very little to maintain dissolved oxygen. Surface agitation seems to be a pretty good method of improving gas exchange, but as aforementioned most tanks already have this.

 

[Nu2SW]

There is always going to be bad stories when someone use's something.

him putting 2 cents in isnt going to really make anyone change. There has been more good then bad.

I will say this, on the directions it says to do one level scoop per actual water level. yeah he may have a 75g tank, but he doesnt have 75g of water.

Depending on how much rock and sand he has in the tank. He can have anywhere from 50-60 gallons. Is it possible that if he went over by one scoop, he had ill effects. Sure is.

Id say that would be more likely then the product it self.

 

[funman1]

If Co2 can get transfered to water in our Calcium reactors with a bubble or two every second. I think a bubbler would help with O2.

Granted not as good as surface agitation and moving air on top of the water, but every little bit helps when you need it the most.

 

[dots]

A doctors two cents in a medical issue

An Engineers two cents in a design issue

and a Chemists two cents in a chemistry issue, makes me listen a little harder.

Just the same way I would listen to both of your opinions when it came to IT or Apple Computers.........

But like I said, FYI.......

 

[funman1]

I'm not attacking anyone, or their views, just stating my experience with it, and what could have gone wrong with the OP.

Somethings work for some, other things work for others.

Thanks for the info though, I'm always looking for new stuff to learn, read, and digest.

I'll def. be more careful with how much I add in the future (if I ever need to), and will be on high alert with my tank if I do decide to dose again.

 

[Nu2SW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9228020#post9228020 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dots
A doctors two cents in a medical issue

An Engineers two cents in a design issue

and a Chemists two cents in a chemistry issue, makes me listen a little harder.

Just the same way I would listen to both of your opinions when it came to IT or Apple Computers.........

But like I said, FYI.......

Ahhh thank you, that started my morning off good.


always a good fyi dots.

Especially from you, your posts and responses are always intelligent and well thought out.


Keep posting those posts

 

[pepe.king.prawn]

Heh. who's the doctor? Dots?

Funman1: To answer your observation about reactors: CO2 is ~200 times more soluble in water than oxygen as it readily converts to a hydrated form (carbonic acid, which dissolves reactor media). But I agree, add an airstone if you deem it helpful.

I think the obvious think with dosing ANYTHING in your tank, is to keep an eye on it. I keep an eye on my tank after adjusting anything, just in case things go south.

 

[Reefugee]

Only problem - the chemist opinion is based on FUD (fear, uncertainity, and doubt) and not on facts.

Regarding the Apple computer comments : I wouldn't trust a used car salesman opinion on a used car. So why should I "trust" someone who works at Apple (and has an interest in seeing that Apple thrives) to give me an unbiased opinion? (No offense Edwin.)

All I know is that the last time my tank crashed, it was due to water. if I didn't have water in my tank, it wouldn't have crashed. Therefore I suggest everyone remove water from their tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9228020#post9228020 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dots

and a Chemists two cents in a chemistry issue, makes me listen a little harder.

Just the same way I would listen to both of your opinions when it came to IT or Apple Computers.........

But like I said, FYI.......

 

[Nu2SW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9230262#post9230262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefugee


Regarding the Apple computer comments : I wouldn't trust a used car salesman opinion on a used car. So why should I "trust" someone who works at Apple (and has an interest in seeing that Apple thrives) to give me an unbiased opinion? (No offense Edwin.)

OHHHHH thanks for the vote of confidence.... LOL j/k


Hey I speak both languages Apple and PC.....Ill always give fair and unbiased opinion.

:rollface:

 

[Justin74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9230262#post9230262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefugee
Only problem - the chemist opinion is based on FUD (fear, uncertainity, and doubt) and not on facts.

Speaking of facts....
I though FUD was Chemi-Clean's marketing ploy?
I think the only fact concerning this product is it does what it claims, only problem with that is what does it do that is not claimed? There are very few facts concerning this product, honestly.

-Justin

 

[jlfnjlf]

Hey I speak both languages Apple and PC.....Ill always give fair and unbiased opinion.

:rollface: [/B]

Yes but what would you prefer on your home computer? I'll take LINUX if I could just get stable set of applications that would play nice together. OS-X is the next best thing.

As for Chemi-Clean I have used it, but I no longer use it. The stuff is just to risky (in my opinion) to dump in my tank. I like to know what chemicals are doing what in my tank. I have started looking at what feeds the cyanobacteria and trying to starve it, and thus far I am having reasonable successes.

John

 

[boviac]

OT - I have to admit those 'I'm a Mac and I'm a PC' videos I've watched online have been hilarious! I've been a loyal PC (albeit AMD) user since Commodore's Amiga failure. But I have to admit that Vista is reaching to be more like a Mac... - end OT

Thanks for bringing in the Chemi-Clean incident - FYI.

Last time I used that product was over a month ago. Now after two water changes and my skimmer just recently started acting normally. I suppose I should have continued using carbon.

I too agree that it is only a short term solution and the real problem should be address as well as the remediation.

 

[dots]

He he he........I told you I wasn't trying to start anything..........

My goal is to have all the Sacto area tanks be the best in the country and possibly build the name of the club by having the most knowlegeable people around..........that can't be accomplished if everyone can't keep there tanks around for long extended periods because they are dumping "snake oils" into them and crashing them..........just a frendily warning to show there are risks involved and don't take the stuff light heartedly. The above is my rational for posting this........but its your tank in the end......just trying to be helpful and thats is always my goal. And am never trying to play the "my tank is better than yours....neener......neener......neener" game. I want us all to have kick butt tanks........das it........

Doctor? No.........Engineer, maybe?........but when is someone really an engineer? By law, nobody can legally call themselves and "Engineer" until the have the Profesional Engineers license, which takes 1. BS in Engineering, 2. EIT certification 3. Work experience under a licenced PE. 4. Passing the PE exam.

So by my own definition, no. However, I am graduating from CSUS with a ME degree in ohhh......12weeks?.....and have been working designing wood and metal furniture, products, etc. for the State for the last two years. Because of the degree, I have had Fluid Mechanics, Strength of Material, Physics, Chemistry, Statics, Dynamics, and especially design......and so on which are commonly applicable to the hobby and try to use the knowledge and design to help achieve my main goal.

Bragging, no......I think its just time to let you guys know where I am comming from and what my personal motivation is being here and extend to all of you a hand if you need it.

However, here is something I am very proud of that I designed last year.........You know that table the Governor is always sitting around on the news.......he wanted a new one last year and I got to design it and it was a great experiece for me.

But as we engaged in this topic before, with H20side?, I am not trying to throw around my qualifications, but have spent a large portion of my life finishing college and believe that if one commits there life to a certain subject be it working in the field or academicaly that the odds of them knowing more that the "layman" is greater, hence the rational of me listening to the "doctor" "chemist", "engineer" or "Apple guy" a little more closely cuz thats what they do everyday whereas I may not.

In addition, I welcome some good banter as you have all seen Justin and I engage in to lighten up the mood........life is serious, we don't have to make this serious!!! Afterall I do this for fun!!!

I hope, this gives you all a little more insight to my motivation and reason for being here. I am interested in others reasoning. Boredom?.....an intense need to have chapped hands and an empty wallet perhaps?



Oh yeah, the reason I don't like Chemiclean is the stuff didn't work for me!!!!!!

 

[GreshamH]

That table is too short for Arnold

J/K

Nice job :rollface:

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9230192#post9230192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pepe.king.prawn
Heh. who's the doctor? Dots?

Funman1: To answer your observation about reactors: CO2 is ~200 times more soluble in water than oxygen as it readily converts to a hydrated form (carbonic acid, which dissolves reactor media). But I agree, add an airstone if you deem it helpful.

I agree 1000%, and so do the PHD's I work with, and all my aquaculture customers. It's widely excepted, and overly proved by science.

I can boil the crap out of my rotifer cultures with air and still not reach saturation. I can put VERY little amounts of pure O2 into the tank and get full saturation in no time.

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9244739#post9244739 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
That table is too short for Arnold

J/K

Nice job :rollface:

Thats funny you say that, there was some back and forth to make sure there was enough clearance at the end for him.

 

[Reefugee]

Dots,

I agree with you that I the a person who commits his/her life to a certain subject will most likely know more than a "layman." My concern here is that in his statement, he clearly states that he doesn't know what is in ChemiClean. So how does his chemistry background help him analyze something that he doesn't even know what it is composed of? So I would not put more weight to his opinion than the other people out there who have successful used it. It's like if a doctor telling you that you have cancer without ever examining you.

It really annoys me when someone goes on a religious war because another person decides to do something different. Take for example bare bottom vs deep sand bed. Some BB people will tell you that you can have a nice SPS tank with DSB and vice versa. However, I have seen BOTH nice BB and DSB tank. It appears that both approach works. There are multiple approaches to this hobby and no single approach is the only way. If a method works for someone - great. But some people jump down someone's throat just because they decided on another approach.



Minh

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9244381#post9244381 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dots

But as we engaged in this topic before, with H20side?, I am not trying to throw around my qualifications, but have spent a large portion of my life finishing college and believe that if one commits there life to a certain subject be it working in the field or academicaly that the odds of them knowing more that the "layman" is greater, hence the rational of me listening to the "doctor" "chemist", "engineer" or "Apple guy" a little more closely cuz thats what they do everyday whereas I may not.

 

[Justin74]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9219923#post9219923 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I'm sorry too about the losses. Chemi-clean isn't something that I recommend as they do not reveal what is in it. The company itself has such utterly ridiculous claims that I do not trust them to decide what is appropriate for a reef aquarium, and what is not.

This should kinda concern anyone who cares about there reeftank IMO, and without trying to choke anyone in a headlock metaphorically with my opinions. But for someone renowned in chemistry to publiclly attempt to sway it from its use should raise a brow.

-Justin