Auburn University Anemone Study!!

[Nagel]

Pro Heat Titanium 150,000 Watt Heater

I gotta ask this, are you COOKING them fish? LOL

Sounds like a very cool project.. I wish I had a more developed science department in my college. I would have jumped on something like this in a heartbeat!

And yeah, your instructor got lucky for sure... I think you may have alot of good info to offer her via your interactions here..

Definately keep this thread updated...

 

[Nagel]

Good Luck! Just keep in mind that clowns host in other inverts that would normally sting /harm other fish (euphyllia for example). This points more towards the individual clowns adapting to the host. Anything you could post that has been proven the other way would be very interesting.

Very good point. I read that somewhere, whether it was wilkerson or moe, I do not recall, but there were three theories why clowns didnt get stung. Never did nail down the one reason though. Each reason had its merits. Now you are gonna make me go find it..

LOL

 

[Nagel]

This is an interesting study except that I do not think that there is any change in an anenome that would make it accept a particular clown, but I guess this could prove me wrong. More likely, it is the individual clownfish that undergoes a change most likely in how its slime coat changes in some way and no longer illicits a response from the anenomes nematocysts.

I wondered about this myself, then I had (still have) a pair of ocellaris that regularly go between a corkscrew anemone and BTA's. And we're not talking days of acclimation, it could be every few minutes. For whatever reason, the anemones dont battle, and the clowns can really hunker down in either without an issue.

 

[aquadog]

Once the clowns adapt the ability to go into something and as long as it is available they always seem to be able to go back easily. It seems to be some kind of immunity(antigen/antibody) response. As inititially they can get stung and then soon they no longer get stung. It is almost as if they can block the firing of the nematocysts. I would definitely be interested if anyone had the definitive answer. I do not believe that it is out there yet. Lots of theories.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Not my thread, but I can share any experiences if need be.
I have Amphiprion polymnus that travel freely between a Stichodactyla haddoni and a Macrodactyla doreensis (both anemones are natural hosts of Saddleback Clowns) in my aquarium. The Saddlebacks could not enter a Heteractis magnifica in the same aquarium, even though they (obviously) wanted to.
I have seen plenty of instances where Anemonefishes form a bond with a non-natural host anemone (and/or coral).

 

[donfishy76]

Very interesting. I went to school for Marine Biology and they didnt even have any studies THIS cool! Of course I too would have jumped on this in a second! Way to go. Dont keep us waiting too long now for info!

 

[z_rivers]

IME i believe its the clown that changes not the anemone. mive had a pair of A. ocellaris for over 2 years now, and have had multiple anemones. ive gone through H. malu, H. crispa, H. magnifica, E. quadricolor, M. doreensis, and H. haddoni some ove which ive had more than half a dozen times. everytime i introduced the anemone into the tank, the clown would swim into the anemone in less than 4 hours.

ive never once had this pair reject an anemone, which are currently residing in an H. malu. this leads me to believe is up to the fish whether it wants to take up an anemone as its host or not. im not trying to prove you wrong, just shared what ive seen over the last few years.

maybe its the clownfish who feel they always need a host? im not sure but you study seems interesting and i wish you the best of luck.

 

[donfishy76]

Aaron, no offense, but doesn't it seem like you cant keep anemones just yet? Just going by what you said, but that is an awful lot of anemone life and money you have gone through, ...

 

[phender]

I think some of you guys are missing the point of the study.
The study is not about who accepts who, or which organism changes.
The anemone "accepts" or "adapts to" the clownfish by not stinging him. They want to find out what chemical(s) or mechanisim turns off the stinging cells of the anemone while still allowing them to fire their nematocysts at prey items.
At least that's what I'm thinkin'.

 

[z_rivers]

donfishy76- all the above anemone lived for a long time except the Mag, he only lasted about 2 months. i either sold or traded the anemones for different ones either because they got large or i got bored with them (like BTAs). ive kept different species at the same time (4 i think was the most ive ever kept at once that were different species). if all the anemones i listed above had died, i wouldnt be buying anymore anemones since that would be a waste of money =). thanks for the concern though.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

phender- you have PM.

 

[donfishy76]

ok aaron, you are off my black list then, ... lol

let shear more about this experiment please!

 

[jman77]

Gary ,

I tried to PM you, but your box is full.

 

[aquadog]

Just remember what came first...The anenome or the clownfish...The clownfish adapted to be able to host in an anenome. Look to the clowns ability to change the composition of its mucous coating. Finding that mechanism or chemical change that allows this would be awesome. Again good luck and keep us posted.

 

[greenbean36191]

Wow, I had no clue this thread was here.

Keep in mind that we are only in the process of setting up the lab right now. Dr. Chadwick has only been at the university for less than a year so we are basically starting from scratch. We're still setting up tanks, moving things around, possibly renovating the lab room, and getting things established and stable. We will also be buying more livestock in the near future. Needless to say we are far from having any data. It will probably be late this semester if not next semester before we even get into the project itself. Even then, this is a long term project with many steps and the first step is just to measure the metabolic rates of anemones with and without clownfish.

Once we do have data, keep in mind that it will eventually published in journals, and it's generally not good form to preempt the journal.

In short, we can keep you informed about the progress of the lab and eventually the progress of the experiments, but in most cases we probably can't share results at least until after they are published.

 

[G_cuvier]

I have noted both Maroon Clowns, (Premnas biaculeatus) and Tomato Clowns (Ampiphrion frenatus), biting off the very tip of an anemone's tentacle shortly after the introduction of the anemone to the aquarium and prior to the fish entering the anemone for the first time. Since I have been a believer in the chemical makeup of the anemonefish's slime preventing the firing of the nematoblasts I have always assumed that this was the anemonefish's method of "immunizing" themselves against the anemone.

Might be worth looking into.....

 

[Whitten]

Wow, I had no clue this thread was here.

Keep in mind that we are only in the process of setting up the lab right now. Dr. Chadwick has only been at the university for less than a year so we are basically starting from scratch. We're still setting up tanks, moving things around, possibly renovating the lab room, and getting things established and stable. We will also be buying more livestock in the near future. Needless to say we are far from having any data. It will probably be late this semester if not next semester before we even get into the project itself. Even then, this is a long term project with many steps and the first step is just to measure the metabolic rates of anemones with and without clownfish.

Once we do have data, keep in mind that it will eventually published in journals, and it's generally not good form to preempt the journal.

In short, we can keep you informed about the progress of the lab and eventually the progress of the experiments, but in most cases we probably can't share results at least until after they are published.

Hey Michael...I thought I told you about this thread? Anyway, great that you are here. I need someone else to help me with the questions. Thanks for poping in man.

 

[greenbean36191]

I figure it's time for another update. Nothing too exciting though. Last week we did our first test run of the metabolism test setup. Basically we are measuring metabolism as a function of ammonia production. We spent over four hours hiding from the fish while we took samples of their pee. I also got the joy of working with the Israeli version of Excel. That was quite a treat. If you think the American version of Office is a pain try it in Hebrew. Michael stopped by while we were taking a set of measurements and I think he has some pictures of us soooo hard at work. :lol: Anyway, as we expected, there are several bugs to work out of the sytem, so it will probably be the end of Nov. if not later before we take any real readings. It's good to finally get into the real lab work rather than just routine tank maintenance though.

Also, I hear that we got lots of new equipment in today, but I haven't seen it, so Michael will have to tell you about that.

 

[aquadog]

How do you take urine samples from fish?

 

[greenbean36191]

They aren't really "urine" samples. They're excretion samples, the difference being that a large amount is coming from the gills. You pretty much just take a small water sample and measure the ammonia in it. It's not quite like doing a hobbyist test though. There is a lot more work involved.