Australia using sun shades to save the coral reef

HUSSCDN

You bring up some interesting points. However, a few of the things in the article don't ring true to me.

For example-- the "Summary for Policymakers" by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that was referenced in the article can be found here:

http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/un/syreng/spm.pdf

You should take a look at it. The article you quoted used this summary to refute some claims made by Gore. However, the document itself backs up a lot of the claims he says in his book (I haven't seen the movie yet).

There will always be confusion and skepticism regarding a subject as complicated as global warming. However, the consensus of scientific opinion is that we are affecting the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, and this is having (and is going to have) dramatic effects on the earth's climate.

The fact that it is going to take a lot of work to make an impact is not reason for us to do nothing, it should provide MORE incentive for us to do what we can to cut global emissions.

I hear a lot about how much the developing world will contribute to Greenhouse emissions. Even projecting to 2025, China and India COMBINED (they have over a billion people each) will produce less greenhouse gases than we do:

http://www.net.org/warming/docs/technology_and_emissions.pdf

Finally-- you said
"But as for green house gases, pick any volcanic eruption in the last 100 years. Anyone of them did 1000x more for global warming then 1000 years for what we do on a daily basis."

That is ridiculous. The US alone is producing almost 6 billion metric tons of CO2 every year (see link above). Where are you getting your information from ?!?!?
 
Here are a few links that talk about how little we do compared to volcanic eruptions

http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/climate_effects.html

THE OZONE, GREENHOUSE, AND HAZE EFFECTS
There is considerable debate on the role that humans play in changing global climate through both the burning of fossil fuels and the release of chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) gases. Some argue that human interaction poses less of a threat to our atmosphere than do natural processes, like volcanic eruptions. This places a great deal of importance on understanding the role of volcanic eruptions in affecting global climate change. Whatever the source, it is apparent that compositional changes in the earth's atmosphere generate three principal climatic effects:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020607073223.htm

One thing i have found in reading up on this topic is that there are two camps. One says we will end up in an ice age and one says we will end up with warm climate that will flood us out.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8799568#post8799568 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HUSSCDN
Here are a few links that talk about how little we do compared to volcanic eruptions

http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/climate_effects.html

THE OZONE, GREENHOUSE, AND HAZE EFFECTS
There is considerable debate on the role that humans play in changing global climate through both the burning of fossil fuels and the release of chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) gases. Some argue that human interaction poses less of a threat to our atmosphere than do natural processes, like volcanic eruptions. This places a great deal of importance on understanding the role of volcanic eruptions in affecting global climate change. Whatever the source, it is apparent that compositional changes in the earth's atmosphere generate three principal climatic effects:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/06/020607073223.htm

One thing i have found in reading up on this topic is that there are two camps. One says we will end up in an ice age and one says we will end up with warm climate that will flood us out.

here is a quote from the first link you posted:

INFLUENCE ON THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT:
Volcanic eruptions can enhance global warming by adding CO2 to the atmosphere. However, a far greater amount of CO2 is contributed to the atmosphere by human activities each year than by volcanic eruptions. Volcanoes contribute about 110 million tons/year, whereas other sources contribute about 10 billion tons/year. The small amount of global warming caused by eruption-generated greenhouse gases is offset by the far greater amount of global cooling caused by eruption-generated particles in the stratosphere (the haze effect). Greenhouse warming of the earth has been particularly evident since 1980. Without the cooling influence of such eruptions as El Chichon (1982) and Mt. Pinatubo (1991), described below, greenhouse warming would have been more pronounced.

This actually says volcanoes help reduce the affect of the all the CO2 we are pumping into the atmosphere. Interesting, but doesn't prove your point.

In his book, Gore actually addresses the 'Ice Age' reference. I understand that you probably don't trust the source :) . At any rate, he says this claim came from a research paper; later, the author of the paper actually admitted he was wrong. However, national media picked up the story and repeated it a few hundred times. Gore made it sound like this wasn't something the scientific community as a whole agreed with at all. I can look it up tonight when I get home if you are interested. At any rate it can understate the problems with getting information from the media who often get information from other news stories or the most sensationalistic reports-- not necessarily from the latest, most accepted (and accurate) scientific reports.
 
Ultimately, the climate has changed thousands of times in earth's history and animals have always adapted. BUT huge (!) extinctions have taken place during times of rapid climate change. If humans want to survive, or at least our society and its economies this needs to be addressed!!!


Sure we won't kill the entire earth right away, we'll just mix it up so much that we won't have a clue what is going on..... we'll have fun with that. It will affect everyone no matter who you are.
 
I can see why I never come in this forum. Bunch of tree huggin liberal hippies.... Should rename this forum NPR.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9005690#post9005690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjfishguy
I can see why I never come in this forum. Bunch of tree huggin liberal hippies.... Should rename this forum NPR.
Hey! I resemble that comment! I'm sorry this discussion makes you uncomfortable, maybe you should go to the lounge where it's safe. Or you could tell us WHY tree hugging liberal hippies are wrong, but that would require being knowledgeable about the issues, and having restraint to refrain from name calling, which I can see is difficult for you.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8771167#post8771167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by antonsemrad
I wonder if the problem is not so much warmer temps, but acidification. Lets face it, even if you don't belive c02 causes global warming- it is changing the water chemistry of the oceans. With lower ph it makes it harder for corals to make thier skeletons. What is even more disconserting, is that zooplankton make their shells the same way. So this could be disrupting the whole food chain. The fishing industry is often blamed for declining fish populations, but I think that there is more to it. I cant find it now, but someone said that the oceans alkilinity values are falling since the industrial revolution. I know that in my tank, one surefire way to induce coral bleaching is low alkilinity.

So what do you guys think?

I didn't comment on this, but I think this is a very good point. Another reason why corals may go extinct, and one issue where we 'coral reef' enthusiasts may have some insight.

I would have thought that this would be a potential issue in the future, though.... and wouldn't explain the currunt coral bleaching. Why would alkalinity levels be lower in some parts of the world (where coral bleachings have been reported) versus other parts (where corals have not yet begun to decline). If Carbon dioxide saturation were the culprit, wouldn't the results me more uniform (and measurable? )
 
Heh, I just like how the initial comment about the US doing 'nothing to help the situation' was directed at the HOLE IN THE OZONE. This may have been the case moreso in the 60's, but not anymore. Now if you are are talking about CO2 per capita, that is another argument altogether.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9045406#post9045406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ratherbediving
I didn't comment on this, but I think this is a very good point. Another reason why corals may go extinct, and one issue where we 'coral reef' enthusiasts may have some insight.

I would have thought that this would be a potential issue in the future, though.... and wouldn't explain the currunt coral bleaching. Why would alkalinity levels be lower in some parts of the world (where coral bleachings have been reported) versus other parts (where corals have not yet begun to decline). If Carbon dioxide saturation were the culprit, wouldn't the results me more uniform (and measurable? )

Thats a good point.
Is the PH the same everywhere? I now belive that the oceans alkilinity has not changed very much. But PH......, that could (is/be) a factor.

The more I learn, the more I don't know.

It just so easy to say 'but'.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9005690#post9005690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjfishguy
I can see why I never come in this forum. Bunch of tree huggin liberal hippies.... Should rename this forum NPR.

duh. then why come now if you really don't want to read threads such as this?

and btw, i'm no tree hugger. i'm not a holier-than-thou activist either.

sorry for the OT guys.

There will always be confusion and skepticism regarding a subject as complicated as global warming. However, the consensus of scientific opinion is that we are affecting the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, and this is having (and is going to have) dramatic effects on the earth's climate.

indeed, and most of the confusion is caused by two things: politics and economics. (which i would not dare open up here. i'm not trolling. :p)
 
the important point in matter is, it is everyones responsibility not to ignore what they can do for the environment. to put it very simply, it is very good practice, and everyone benefits from being more responsible rather than arguing politics or wondering if global warming exists.
 
I hardly think you can compare the findings of Dr. Balling with those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, an international collection of government, university, and non-profit funded scientists. Yes, he's a university professor, but he has also received significant amounts of money from the oil and coal industries (see below). You may say that government scientists have their own agendas, but given that many governments have an interest in the status quo, I'm not sure why they would be funding a group of scientists who so unanimously contradict those interests.

Or maybe they're all wrong. Maybe Balling is a modern day Copernicus, albeit one who takes lots of money from industry.

==========
Dr. Balling wrote the "Heated Debate," published by the Pacific Research Institute and "True State of the Planet," published by CEI. He co-wrote "The Satanic Gases" with Patrick J. Michaels, published by the Cato Institute. Balling signed the Leipzig Declaration in 1995.

According to Harper's, Balling has recieved more than $200,000 from coal and oil interests over the past six years. Specific incidences include significant levels of funding since 1989 from the Kuwaiti government, foreign coal and mining corporations and Cyprus Minerals Company (totalling $72,554). (Kuwait has opposed the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). The Kuwaiti government paid for a release of Balling's "A Heated Debate" in the Middle East, a project originally funded by the Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy. The Kuwait Foundation for the Advancement of Science granted Balling $48,993 and the Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research granted him an undisclosed amount. British Coal Corporation gave him a total of $103,544 and the German Coal Mining Association gave him $81,780 in two separate grants. (Ozone Action, NCPPR directory)

PhD University of Oklahoma, 1979. Senior Consultant United Nations World Meteorological Organization.

Director, Office of Climatology and Associate professor of Geography, Arizona State University NCPPR scientific expert on global warming. (1996)
 
<b>I can see why I never come in this forum. Bunch of tree huggin liberal hippies.... Should rename this forum NPR.<b/>

LOL and this statement is the end result of a higher education?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9005690#post9005690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjfishguy
I can see why I never come in this forum. Bunch of tree huggin liberal hippies.... Should rename this forum NPR.


its says reefs in your interests yet you have a cr*p attitude dont you.

whos going to save or try and save the reefs? the reef huggers?
 
You can kind of expect people to dismiss the whole thing,because they would rather live there lives in denial. But what really gets me is people getting slagged off for careing about there environment and planet.

whats wrong with hugging a tree? its better than chopping one down.....


The damage we are doing to our planet is getting really out of control now.
 
http://friendsofscience.org/
has some good information on these global warming myths everyone in this forum seem to be regurgitating don't worry it's not your fault we were all taught this garbage in the public school system or watching some politically driven debate about the "results are in" - Al Gore the imbecile who "invented the internet"
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9336818#post9336818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slinky2k5
http://friendsofscience.org/
has some good information on these global warming myths everyone in this forum seem to be regurgitating don't worry it's not your fault we were all taught this garbage in the public school system or watching some politically driven debate about the "results are in" - Al Gore the imbecile who "invented the internet"
Information? Maybe misinformation. I love the name of the website, "friends of science". LMAO. I'm sure there isn't ANY suspicious funding for this think-tank. Oh, wait, there is. http://www.charlesmontgomery.ca/mrcool.html

You need to read actual SCIENCE, my friend, don't rely on think-tanks that only distort and falsify other people's work, such as friendsofscience.org, LMAO.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9336818#post9336818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slinky2k5
http://friendsofscience.org/
has some good information on these global warming myths everyone in this forum seem to be regurgitating don't worry it's not your fault we were all taught this garbage in the public school system or watching some politically driven debate about the "results are in" - Al Gore the imbecile who "invented the internet"

clearly, this is bull. can't we just leave the politics issue aside here?
i'd never allow myself to be dictated by politics when it comes to issues like this.

regardless of what scientists or demigods prove, (or disprove, whatever), global warming or no global warming, we should be responsible enough to do something good to our environment. We are aquarists here, right? surely everyone has a good perception of what is good and what is bad for our environment. If one reefer could talk almost endlessly about keeping his tanks "clean" and pollution-free, and how he must keep things at it is, then he should be intelligent enough to know what's good enough for his surroundings.

to issue itself is a no brainer, IMO.
 
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