Automatic Water Top Off

[tgreene]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8506895#post8506895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
He is the guy who wrote the article you linked us to.

Ummm, WRONG!

Borneman, as in Erichugo, as in the guy that used to run the Coral forums here, has written several books, is a Marine Biologist in Houston, etc.

Yea, THAT Borneman!

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8509495#post8509495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
Ummm, WRONG!

Borneman, as in Erichugo, as in the guy that used to run the Coral forums here, has written several books, is a Marine Biologist in Houston, etc.

Yea, THAT Borneman!

Well sorry wrong Erik.

 

[mrvinman]

Yeah.

The link I gave was for an ErikS

After more research, I think I like the Oceanus Atlas because it also has a single float for the display aquarium which would guard against the tank overflowing if the HOB becomes clogged in any way.

 

[bureau13]

I like the Tunze Osmolator because it has several levels of redundancy...there is an optical sensor that turns the pump on and off, there is a float switch above that which turns the pump off if the optical sensor fails for some reason, and there is a timer...if the pump runs for more than I think 10 minutes, it shuts down. There is also an alarm if the float switch triggers. I've never needed any of these failsafes, but I like that they're there. I am also running it through a Kalk stirrer, which is working pretty well.

jds

 

[waucedah_joe]

I have the Tunze Osmolator also. Bought it used 2 months ago and love it.

 

[africangrey]

For Oceanus System users, I have variable sump water level due to Tunze wavemaker, do you think Zeus would do the trick to accuratly keep the water level constant. I will direct feed it through RO/DI module and my current controller isn't doing the job and will activate the solenoid when wavebox is switch off and dump whole bunch of water to the sump.

 

[Zoom]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8511482#post8511482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by africangrey
For Oceanus System users, I have variable sump water level due to Tunze wavemaker, do you think Zeus would do the trick to accuratly keep the water level constant. I will direct feed it through RO/DI module and my current controller isn't doing the job and will activate the solenoid when wavebox is switch off and dump whole bunch of water to the sump.

I had to build my sump so I don't have variable sump water level the Oceanus System Zeus that i have it will trigger the top of solenoid on and off all the time i don't think it will work for long this way.

 

[mrvinman]

For anyone out there using the Oceanus or Tunze, when your desired water level in sump is reached, is RO waste water still produced? Cause that could be a hell of a lot of wasted water.

If it doesn't, how can you stop the waster water?

 

[geckofrog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8516903#post8516903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrvinman
For anyone out there using the Oceanus or Tunze, when your desired water level in sump is reached, is RO waste water still produced? Cause that could be a hell of a lot of wasted water.

If it doesn't, how can you stop the waster water?

This has to do with your RO/DI Unit, most units come with a autoshut valve wherein you can put a float valve in your storage tank which will shut off when it is full. The storage tank is just mainly a holding tank for RO/DI water, it stays in there until your auto-top off device says that your sump, or aquarium needs more water and pumps it in. This is how 99% of us have it configured.

 

[mrvinman]

I thought the product water line would hook up directly to the ATO unit, not from a reservoir. If that's the case, when product water is stopped, what happens with the waste water line?

 

[geckofrog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8517195#post8517195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrvinman
I thought the product water line would hook up directly to the ATO unit, not from a reservoir. If that's the case, when product water is stopped, what happens with the waste water line?

Very few systems are directly connected to the RO/DI unit. When product water is stopped so is the waste water. The system I guess you could say is on pause until your ATO unit adds more water to your sump or aquarium from your reservoir, and your reservoir water line gets lowered which causes your float valve to switch your RO/DI unit off of pause. And it starts producing pure water again as well as waste water.

Make sense?

 

[cybertec69]

Re: Automatic Water Top Off

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8500855#post8500855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrvinman
Hi all,

I'm new to all this. Just set up my 72g tank and realized topping off the water is tedious.

I want to set up an auto top off going into my sump.
However, the source RO/DI water would be coming from 1 floor below.

Does anyone know of any products out there I can use or how I can set it up?

Thanks,
Vin

do what I did, go to www.autotopoff.com , and get the dual switch controler and dual solenoid valves, the controler goes directly into your sump, and the solenoid valves by the cold water line, here are some pics of my setup to give you and idea, the last six pictures on my webpage http://cybertec.smugmug.com/gallery/2059513 , any questions just let me know, this settup works flawlessly for me.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8517195#post8517195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrvinman
I thought the product water line would hook up directly to the ATO unit, not from a reservoir. If that's the case, when product water is stopped, what happens with the waste water line?

The reason most of us use an RO/DI storage is because it can not only be used for Top Off but that storage can be used to have water available for mixing and any other use requiring RO/DI (Like dissolving supplements and such).
You can connect the RO/DI unit directly to your top off the same way it is connected to an RO/DI storage with an auto top off.
This is a solenoid valve in the product line turnes on or off closing or opening the line as indicated by the top off unit. When the line is shut off by the solenoid the waste water is shut off by the means of the RO/DI system Auto Shut off valve (ASOV) This valve detects the increase of pressure in the product line created by shutting off the solenoid and when it increases then it shuts off the input to the RO/DI system.

Noe, connecting the RO/DI unit directly to the sump might have a couple of disadvantages, first if the solenoid fails to close you could flood your aquarium with fresh water and overflow the sump, to prevent this in addition to the float switches of the auto top off, you need to install a float valve sligtly above the higher level switch of the top off. If the higher float switch or the solenoid fail to actuate the rising level will close the float valve preventing more water being delivered to the sump.

The second disadvantage is that it takes some flow for the RO/DI to start producing pure water after start because diring the shut off, impurities pass to the product line. When directly connected to teh sump the water is delivered in small batches this means the RO/DI turns on and off more often thus delivering a lot of impurities to the sump.
On the other hand if you have a reservoir, say 30 gallons you can set up the reservoir top off to turn on when the tank is almost empty (say only 5 gal are left) this is the RO/DI unit will start only when a large batch of 25 gallons is needed thus the portion of initial impurities is diluted over 25 gallons rahter than in a 1 gallon as might be required by the sump ffrom direct top off.

Hope this explanation clarify your question.

 

[mrvinman]

Thanks for the info.

I think I understand what you wrote.
If the following doesn't make sense just let me know. I'm new to all of this.

This is what I have and/or need:

I have a Kent Maxxima 60gpd RO/DI unit.

If I use a reservoir, it would be setup 1 floor below my tank and sump.
Would I need to get the Kent Float valve kit and put it in the reservoir to prevent it from overflowing and shut off the RO?

Then setup the ATO in my sump? If I had hooked the RO unit directly to the ATO I wouldn't worry about delivering the water since the pressure from the line would be sufficient. How would I get the water from the reservoir (which is 1 floor below) to the sump?
Sorry if these are elemental questions, but when you don't know, you don't know!
Thanks a bunch.

 

[africangrey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8517480#post8517480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
The second disadvantage is that it takes some flow for the RO/DI to start producing pure water after start because diring the shut off, impurities pass to the product line. When directly connected to teh sump the water is delivered in small batches this means the RO/DI turns on and off more often thus delivering a lot of impurities to the sump.
On the other hand if you have a reservoir, say 30 gallons you can set up the reservoir top off to turn on when the tank is almost empty (say only 5 gal are left) this is the RO/DI unit will start only when a large batch of 25 gallons is needed thus the portion of initial impurities is diluted over 25 gallons rahter than in a 1 gallon as might be required by the sump ffrom direct top off.

Hope this explanation clarify your question.

Is there any way to rewire the RO/Di to get rid off the impurity before delivering to the tank, I am sure there are a lot of us directly route the RO/DI to the ATO to save space for the storage tank.
Steve from Ocenanus said something about the reroute the prefiltered water to the solenoid then delivering the final product directly to the sump without corroding the solenoid, I am wondering if rerounting would leviate the impurity problem that you described in the early part of the thread.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8518393#post8518393 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrvinman
Thanks for the info.

I think I understand what you wrote.
If the following doesn't make sense just let me know. I'm new to all of this.

This is what I have and/or need:

I have a Kent Maxxima 60gpd RO/DI unit.

Good the Kent Maxima has an auto shut off valve.

If I use a reservoir, it would be setup 1 floor below my tank and sump.
Would I need to get the Kent Float valve kit and put it in the reservoir to prevent it from overflowing and shut off the RO?
You can fill it manually, say you notice it is getting empty, open a valve to start producing water then wait for it to be filled and then turn it off.
The reality is that most of us will open the valve, go to other things (like watch TV) and totally forget thet the RO is open, the result a flooded basement.
To prevent this even if you open it manually you will need the float valve.
Further more, to prevent the RO/DI opening every time you take some water out and create a purity issue then you need in the reservoir a two float switch Top off or manually close the RO when the tank is full and wait for the reservoir to be empty before manually opening the valve, in other words let the float cut it off in case you forget and manually close the valve, then even if the float open the reservoir will not fill until you manually open the valve again.

Then setup the ATO in my sump? If I had hooked the RO unit directly to the ATO I wouldn't worry about delivering the water since the pressure from the line would be sufficient. How would I get the water from the reservoir (which is 1 floor below) to the sump?
If the RO/DI is connected to the sump directly the pressure will be enough to top it off but the top off will be delayed if the reservoir is being filled until it is full, in other words becasue the reservoir is in the lower floor it will be filled before the sump.

If you have the RO/DI directly connected to the top off in the sump you do not need to pump water from the reservoir to top off.
Having said that if your RO/DI reservoir is in the basement you may probably want to also have your mix tank in the basement so you can take water from the reservoir to the mix tank mix the salt and then pump the water from the mixing tank to the sump for your water changes.
To do this you need a good powerhead in the reservoir to transfer water to the mix tank and a pressure rated pump (more than 15 ft head) to pump the water from the mix tank to the sump. Additionally because I assume you will be at the sump when making the water change you will need to install a switch upstairs to turn off the mix tank pump when the amount of water change has been completed. Alternatively you can put a valve on the line from the mix tank and you can close it upstairs to stop the transfer and then walk downstairs to tur off the transfer pump.

Sorry if these are elemental questions, but when you don't know, you don't know!
At the beginning ... no body knew... That is why we ended up bitting the apple an look were it took us.
Thanks a bunch.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8518726#post8518726 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by africangrey
Is there any way to rewire the RO/Di to get rid off the impurity before delivering to the tank, I am sure there are a lot of us directly route the RO/DI to the ATO to save space for the storage tank.
Steve from Ocenanus said something about the reroute the prefiltered water to the solenoid then delivering the final product directly to the sump without corroding the solenoid, I am wondering if rerounting would leviate the impurity problem that you described in the early part of the thread.

I do not know what he refers to as re-routing. There is in the market an automatic system to purge the bad product water before it is produced into the pure water tank or sump.
This electronic device uses an electronic timer and a two way solenoid valve. When the RO/DI starts the timer will operate the solenoid in a way to trow away to the waste line the first five minutes of production which will purge the impurities out of the system once the five minutes pass, it instructs the solenoid to close the product to waste and open the product to storage.
This same device can function as the primary top off as it can integrate and operate two float switches.
It can also be configured not only to purge and top off but also to back flush the membrane automatically after each use.

Look for Spectrapure's Pass to Drain Valve http://www.spectrapure.com/St_PTD_p0.htm

 

[jdieck]

sorry double post

 

[africangrey]

jdieck,
Thanks for the info, oh man I just orderd the zeus from Oceanus System for almost $200 with timer and accessory, it's pleasant to know I have to spend another $140 for the Pass-To-Drain technology. The cost of whole ATO set up is ~$340, this hobby isn' t for the poor for sure.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8519277#post8519277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by africangrey
jdieck,
Thanks for the info, oh man I just orderd the zeus from Oceanus System for almost $200 with timer and accessory, it's pleasant to know I have to spend another $140 for the Pass-To-Drain technology. The cost of whole ATO set up is ~$340, this hobby isn' t for the poor for sure.

Yes it is expensive. I am not sure but I think the PTD valve could have done both the top off and the purge for less $.