Bad batch of Instant Ocean? Alkalinity through the ROOF!!!
- Thread starter Megalodon
- Start date
uryy4me
Premium Member
SPC said:
Morning Steve - A 15 page thread just to say that? :eek2:...just kidding guys
Megalodon - didn't anyone tell you that we send all the bad IO to Canada? ....still kidding
Seriously though, the heads up is always appreciated and it would be nice to get to the bottom of all of this so we can move beyond speculation.
Thanks all for contributing to this thread!
- scott -
horsehunter
New member
Just read all15 pages ...Amazing .....NO COMENT FROM INSTANT OCEAN
I just checked their website to see if there was any sort of explanation or even an acknowledgement of a recent problem but all I could find was a claim that every batch is carefully analyzed to guarantee consistency, composition and uniformity. They do provide a toll-free 800 number that you could call to ask them about this.
TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Thank you for your interest in Aquarium Systems' products. Although E-Mail may seem quicker to you, it often is not the best way to get technical answers to your questions. That is why we provide you with a toll free telephone number. The exchange of detailed information is necessary to be the most accurate with our answers for your specific questions. So, if you have a question that is not general enough to be answered on our FAQ's page, call one of our highly qualified technicians at
1-800-822-1100
any time between 9am and 5pm Eastern time.
They will be happy to help you find solutions.
TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Thank you for your interest in Aquarium Systems' products. Although E-Mail may seem quicker to you, it often is not the best way to get technical answers to your questions. That is why we provide you with a toll free telephone number. The exchange of detailed information is necessary to be the most accurate with our answers for your specific questions. So, if you have a question that is not general enough to be answered on our FAQ's page, call one of our highly qualified technicians at
1-800-822-1100
any time between 9am and 5pm Eastern time.
They will be happy to help you find solutions.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Well, they seemed to have responded to everyone who called them, replacing salt and in cases, livestock too.
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And to be honest, I don't think they're required to patrol all of the reef boards to make statements on their salt.
While there are a couple, maybe even a dozen folks who have reported this - it's not like it is hundreds of people who've had this problem. If that was the case, maybe some big deal is worthy ... but as they know their testing processes ... maybe they are confident this is an isolated incident, and not a giant batch.
--
I purchased a bad Ph test kit by Salifert, and while Habib responded in their forum about it ... it's still 2 months later and no replacement. They're working on it ... but still - 2 months, I've had to replace their kit with another manufacturer.
While good customer attention, not really a rapid response. Nor some sort of major statement by them here [where they even have a forum] on it.
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I don't really expect much from them.
Hmmm. how about we compare this to Rio pumps ... they don't do squat about causing an awful lot of reef problems in their time ... and no statement, no apology, nada. Continue to put out crummy product ... and nothing out of them.
Seems like the IO folks have done a lot more for those who talked to them.
---
And to be honest, I don't think they're required to patrol all of the reef boards to make statements on their salt.
While there are a couple, maybe even a dozen folks who have reported this - it's not like it is hundreds of people who've had this problem. If that was the case, maybe some big deal is worthy ... but as they know their testing processes ... maybe they are confident this is an isolated incident, and not a giant batch.
--
I purchased a bad Ph test kit by Salifert, and while Habib responded in their forum about it ... it's still 2 months later and no replacement. They're working on it ... but still - 2 months, I've had to replace their kit with another manufacturer.
While good customer attention, not really a rapid response. Nor some sort of major statement by them here [where they even have a forum] on it.
---
I don't really expect much from them.
Hmmm. how about we compare this to Rio pumps ... they don't do squat about causing an awful lot of reef problems in their time ... and no statement, no apology, nada. Continue to put out crummy product ... and nothing out of them.
Seems like the IO folks have done a lot more for those who talked to them.
Amazing no coment from Instant Ocean,not amazing at all the bottom line is what counts to them. Instant Ocean will not even tell you what salt is not good to used. Instant Ocean synthetic sea salt sets the standard by which other synthetic sea salts are measured i hope not. RGibson
tang_man_montreal
New member
I have since decided to switch brands....
I'm picking up my first bucket of Tropic Marin this afternoon.
I have lost faith and trust in the company... not to mention my tank and livestock that succumbed to their "error". My tank hasn't been the same since. Even after rebuilding it. I'm sure that is due to my liverock having died as well.
I agree with RGibson, that Instant Ocean (Marineland) should have atleast chimed in on the thread.
I'm picking up my first bucket of Tropic Marin this afternoon.
I have lost faith and trust in the company... not to mention my tank and livestock that succumbed to their "error". My tank hasn't been the same since. Even after rebuilding it. I'm sure that is due to my liverock having died as well.
I agree with RGibson, that Instant Ocean (Marineland) should have atleast chimed in on the thread.
horsehunter
New member
I am glad they are not in the food industry. I operate a grinder blender in the food industry and make a 8 3200 KG batches a shift we can track every KG of raw ingredient in the batch as to supplier,date of manufacture, and lot #. Every batch is tested in our lab before release to processing. Every finished package is coded as to date,batch#,time produced, and the machines it was run on. Samples of the finished product are retained by our lab till well after the expiry date. We have screw ups like every processing plant but the tend not to leave the building and if they did we know where they are.
mjag
New member
I know
I know
Well I think my live rock is pretty mich dead also I see no life other than what I put in that tank IE Snails, crabs, ect.
So now I will either have to get some more live rock or seed it in some way.
Whats the best place to get somethng like that?
Also what should I get?
Mjag
I know
Well I think my live rock is pretty mich dead also I see no life other than what I put in that tank IE Snails, crabs, ect.
So now I will either have to get some more live rock or seed it in some way.
Whats the best place to get somethng like that?
Also what should I get?
Mjag
tang_man_montreal
New member
Somehow, I don't see them replacing my 100 pounds of liverock, which is now dead.
justletmein
Premium Member
I'd like to see them recall the salt. Of course, to do that they have to know where the bad batches went and they may not keep track.
spham
New member
A little update,
I've send two sample to Bob at Aquarium Systems 3-weeks ago. One sample, I had a KH that was off scale (really high), the second with a 16dkh. I had left a note in there for him so he can give me feedback about the sample when he finish testing it. I call him last week and left a message. I still haven't recived any call from him. So far, I'm thinking he is trying to avoid me, or he is too busy trying to resolve this problem. He have been really helpful the first time I called (returning my calls, replacing my salt, doing whatevery he can). Now I have 3 bucket of IO.
The first bucket is the one with the really high dKH. The second one I bought to replace the bad bucket have a KH of 16dKH. I have used 1/2 of it. I can't tell you if this bucket had affected any livestock. I used it to setup 2 tanks. The tanks have just finish cycle and I will do a 100% WC and add my first fish in it this weekend. I will update you on the health of the fish 1 week after I add in the fish. I have't test the salt that I've recived from Bob yet, I still haven't open it. Will open it tonight and test it.
I've send two sample to Bob at Aquarium Systems 3-weeks ago. One sample, I had a KH that was off scale (really high), the second with a 16dkh. I had left a note in there for him so he can give me feedback about the sample when he finish testing it. I call him last week and left a message. I still haven't recived any call from him. So far, I'm thinking he is trying to avoid me, or he is too busy trying to resolve this problem. He have been really helpful the first time I called (returning my calls, replacing my salt, doing whatevery he can). Now I have 3 bucket of IO.
The first bucket is the one with the really high dKH. The second one I bought to replace the bad bucket have a KH of 16dKH. I have used 1/2 of it. I can't tell you if this bucket had affected any livestock. I used it to setup 2 tanks. The tanks have just finish cycle and I will do a 100% WC and add my first fish in it this weekend. I will update you on the health of the fish 1 week after I add in the fish. I have't test the salt that I've recived from Bob yet, I still haven't open it. Will open it tonight and test it.
Megalodon
Clowning Around
A dKH of 16 is still too high
A dKH of 16 is still too high
I expect more from all salt brands. It doesn't seem that people should be required to add calcium to their salt mix just to bring down the alkalinity, while others have to raise it with a buffer. Then you have to do more testing and spend more money than usual.
On the flip side, the IO I have now that I'm pleased with has a dKH of less than 4 so I have to add Kent Superbuffer. The Red Sea I had before had a perfect dKH of about 9, so I didn't have to add anything. That's certainly not to say Red Sea doesn't suffer from inconsistencies. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m sure it does just as much as IOs ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œgoodââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ batches.
Shouldn't all salt come out at an appropriate dKH? You would think it would reflect natural seawater. You would think everyone who uses the same type of salt would have the same type of water readings. Regardless of how you mix it shouldn't the dKH remain at least in the same ball park? Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve used both methods of mixing (stirring like a crazy mad man right after adding the salt, and also letting the salt slowly dissolve with a powerhead) and my new IO always comes out at this same low dKH.
If these inconsistencies exist between buckets, regardless if you have a "bad batch" or not, wouldn't you think other things would be off too? Sea salt has many different elements and compounds so you can imagine the potential of what could go wrong. What if someone has otherwise good salt but it has an unusually high level of say tin or aluminum? You might not ever find out about it. Believe me, if I was a scientist, I would love to do a study and article on it.
:fish2: :fish1: :fish2: :fish1: :fish2: :fish1: :fish2:
A dKH of 16 is still too high
I expect more from all salt brands. It doesn't seem that people should be required to add calcium to their salt mix just to bring down the alkalinity, while others have to raise it with a buffer. Then you have to do more testing and spend more money than usual.
On the flip side, the IO I have now that I'm pleased with has a dKH of less than 4 so I have to add Kent Superbuffer. The Red Sea I had before had a perfect dKH of about 9, so I didn't have to add anything. That's certainly not to say Red Sea doesn't suffer from inconsistencies. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m sure it does just as much as IOs ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œgoodââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ batches.
Shouldn't all salt come out at an appropriate dKH? You would think it would reflect natural seawater. You would think everyone who uses the same type of salt would have the same type of water readings. Regardless of how you mix it shouldn't the dKH remain at least in the same ball park? Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve used both methods of mixing (stirring like a crazy mad man right after adding the salt, and also letting the salt slowly dissolve with a powerhead) and my new IO always comes out at this same low dKH.
If these inconsistencies exist between buckets, regardless if you have a "bad batch" or not, wouldn't you think other things would be off too? Sea salt has many different elements and compounds so you can imagine the potential of what could go wrong. What if someone has otherwise good salt but it has an unusually high level of say tin or aluminum? You might not ever find out about it. Believe me, if I was a scientist, I would love to do a study and article on it.
:fish2: :fish1: :fish2: :fish1: :fish2: :fish1: :fish2:
ADBtie
New member
Um...makes me want to try this:
http://www.catalinawater.com/
I think I'll try this water this weekend...look's promising
http://www.catalinawater.com/
I think I'll try this water this weekend...look's promising
Megalodon
Clowning Around
Wow, these people sell the water along with the salt.
The Vancouver Aquarium uses their own filtered sea water. They're right in Stanley Park and surrounded by ocean. I would imagine they save millions of dollars doing it that way. I would also imagine that while it's better, it might be prone to certain contaminants.
How much does this Catalina water cost? Does anyone already use it? I'm guessing it would be a little strange to have a big saltwater truck pull up to your house.
The Vancouver Aquarium uses their own filtered sea water. They're right in Stanley Park and surrounded by ocean. I would imagine they save millions of dollars doing it that way. I would also imagine that while it's better, it might be prone to certain contaminants.
How much does this Catalina water cost? Does anyone already use it? I'm guessing it would be a little strange to have a big saltwater truck pull up to your house.
