Ban USA SPS import? Discussion

[Gmerek2]

I really feel like USA could produce all of our own SPS corals. I have trouble selling locally lots of supply little demand for the common SPS frags. BAN all imported SPS to save oceans and stimulate USA economy? Just a friendly discussion

 

[Acronic]

Why would a ban need to be implemented to execute the sustain of captive grown corals? Shouldn't that come naturally?

 

[Alfrareef]

Ban USA SPS import? Discussion

It's always the same old discussion. It's all about offer-demand-price.
The main good reason for captive growth its protecting the reefs and life diversity and usually the LFS don't have that concept in their business model.
If you can't sell, try lowering prices to stimulate the demand.

 

[Moort82]

Growing mariculture corals or protecting/farming wild reefs protects them. If you take away even a small part of their economic value they will suffer further. Local people can't live off the fact they live in a beautiful area, tourism may pay in some areas. Sustainable harvesting is in the best interests of us all for the time being.

 

[TheOtherDB]

Oh, look, I found two cents ... guess I ought to spend them!

To frame my thoughts, if I've learned anything in the 62 years I've been sucking up oxygen on this planet, there's more disinformation out there being used to stir up the natives than I am comfortable with using to craft a reply, but I just found these two cents, so I feel compelled.

I have family that has asked me about my tank and the impact it has on global reefs. My answer has been that, admittedly based on what is potentially disinformation, reef hobbyists may one day have the only living coral (and other) specimens on the planet.

I'm not comfortable with the word "ban". I think the world has shifted towards a much more stewardly approach to this thin envelope of biosphere we call home. Granted, there are still some areas in need of improvement, but overall, I believe the move has been in a positive direction.

Almost without exception, those that I come into contact with in this hobby are much more environmentally conscientious than your average non-animal keeping human. Even then, I think that most folks would want to keep reefs alive, keep forests in tact, keep the world and its natural habitats in as healthy a state as possible.

Already, sources I see for obtaining corals are selling more and more livestock that's been captive cultured.

This planet has undergone far more naturally destructive events than a mere aquarium hobbyist could produce, and it simply moves forward into its next construct. Maybe in the next iteration the dinosaurs will come back? Imagine the size of tanks we'll need then, eh?

So, I think a ban would be no more constructive than what is already happening in the aquarium trade/hobby and runs the risk of creating an underground that could end up like drug cartels, full of violent criminals who have no regard for law.

Okay, that was more like a nickel than two cents ... but there you have it.

 

[Piper27]

I really feel like USA could produce all of our own SPS corals. I have trouble selling locally lots of supply little demand for the common SPS frags. BAN all imported SPS to save oceans and stimulate USA economy? Just a friendly discussion

The demand for common sps frags will always be small, newbies want them to test out their tanks and try something a little harder. But most don't want to spend much money or any on them. Try growing the common corals out into colonies to sell them, they will sell then.
I am sure most countries could sustain a portion of sps aquacultured in homes and such. But ban all sps to stimulate our economy? How would that work? Banning Imported sps would put many local fish stores out of business. Well not around here they are all scared to keep them . But you get what I mean.
I am all for maricultured and wild collection from healthy reefs. Cultured sps keep natives of the area jobs as well as wild collection. Without these two we would have nothing new in the hobby. I am also in the mindset that if all the reefs die we will have one of the only supply's of corals there is and if we stop importing we may loose valuable species that could provide something useful to science or medicine in the future. (OK maybe that's a stretch but you never know)
Also I couldn't have fun in this hobby if nothing new ever came in again! Man that would be boring.

 

[reefwiser]

Banning will not save the oceans. The problem with the oceans is humans and our wasteful live style. Global warming has nothing to do with coral frags. Our hobby is so small as to meaningless to the US economy.
If you want to sell more frags get out there An show hobbyist in your area how to keep SPS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[organism]

So because you can't sell common SPS frags in your specific area your suggestion is to ban SPS? That's quite a stretch... For starters the US doesn't have the ability to grow anything close to the amount of SPS the market demands. Maybe 3-5% if we're being super generous and people open huge warehouses.

Coral harvesting gives many Indo Pacific countries a vested interest in keeping their reefs healthy. Without that incentive they're more than happy to dynamite them for construction materials, allow trawler fishing, and dump sewage into them. Or you could start growing less common SPS.

 

[Piper27]

Well put organism. I never thought about it giving them more incentives to keep the reef healthy.

I say we talk about banning the import of lps and softies. No one wants thoes anyways

 

[reefmutt]

I'm not sure a ban would be so good because I wouldn't be able to get those rare and potentially one of a kind super duper special corals I dream about at night! That's a bit sarcastic....
Between sustainable harvesting, like what goes on in Australia and the farms that exist in other parts of the world, I'd agree with a ban on irresponsible harvesting.. not that that would be so easy to regulate..
One thing I think would make a big difference and would benefit the hobby is lifting the ban on the international trade of captive bred corals and frags. I wish I could buy from the US. If I could, I'd have so many coveted corals that I'd be a LOT less interested in wild corals because I'd have zero room left in my tank..

 

[Dapg8gt]

Not to sound judgemental but your whole premise of a ban is due to the fact of you having common SPS and your inability to make a profit. That is probably the weirdest thing I'll hear for the rest of the year =).

I for one totally disagree with your thoughts and share organism's and others feelings on the matter. Local harvesters of the coral we keep are not the main culprit to the reef's decline. And to even consider banning something we cherish ( sps and coral in general) would be the first big step in banning the entire hobby IMO.

Misinformation is already prevalent around our little addiction and to impose a ban would give them ammunition to put a total stop to something that's a drop in a Olympic size swimming pool to over fishing and climate change..

Up your sps game and get some wanted corals if your trying to actually profit from it, if not give deals they can't pass up.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[TheOtherDB]

From Dapg8gt: "Misinformation is already prevalent around our little addiction and to impose a ban would give them ammunition to put a total stop to something that's a drop in a Olympic size swimming pool to over fishing and climate change.. "

Yep ... 'nuther good point! I just want to know who "them" is cuz I wanna take'em off of my Christmas card mailing list!

 

[Gmerek2]

Not to sound judgemental but your whole premise of a ban is due to the fact of you having common SPS and your inability to make a profit. That is probably the weirdest thing I'll hear for the rest of the year =).

I for one totally disagree with your thoughts and share organism's and others feelings on the matter. Local harvesters of the coral we keep are not the main culprit to the reef's decline. And to even consider banning something we cherish ( sps and coral in general) would be the first big step in banning the entire hobby IMO.

Misinformation is already prevalent around our little addiction and to impose a ban would give them ammunition to put a total stop to something that's a drop in a Olympic size swimming pool to over fishing and climate change..

Up your sps game and get some wanted corals if your trying to actually profit from it, if not give deals they can't pass up.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

You are definitely being judgmental. The point of me sharing the selling and supply/demand was to show that there are so many frags out there that maybe we could produce enough home grown supply in the USA to keep up with demand. Thanks for basically calling me weird. merry Christmas to you too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gmerek2]

Ban USA SPS import? Discussion

Why would a ban need to be implemented to execute the sustain of captive grown corals? Shouldn't that come naturally?

This is the best point Made. This is how business works and less govt dictating our hobby the better. And with how technology on reef tanks is getting better and how much more info is out there on growing SPS I think imports will slowly fade with the increase on growth keep informing me guys as I was clearly misinformed on throwing the friendly "BAN" discussion out there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gmerek2]

The demand for common sps frags will always be small, newbies want them to test out their tanks and try something a little harder. But most don't want to spend much money or any on them. Try growing the common corals out into colonies to sell them, they will sell then.
I am sure most countries could sustain a portion of sps aquacultured in homes and such. But ban all sps to stimulate our economy? How would that work? Banning Imported sps would put many local fish stores out of business. Well not around here they are all scared to keep them . But you get what I mean.
I am all for maricultured and wild collection from healthy reefs. Cultured sps keep natives of the area jobs as well as wild collection. Without these two we would have nothing new in the hobby. I am also in the mindset that if all the reefs die we will have one of the only supply's of corals there is and if we stop importing we may loose valuable species that could provide something useful to science or medicine in the future. (OK maybe that's a stretch but you never know)
Also I couldn't have fun in this hobby if nothing new ever came in again! Man that would be boring.

I agree there is nothing more fun than coloring up a wild colony. Anything can happen to the colors and that gives me a good thrill and a nice challenge! My LFS probably only has 2% of his profit come from wild SPS sales so you are right about that and it would barely affect him (mainly sells home grown or local SPS). but I do see your point that some LFS make a good profit on Wild $P$. Those would have to make a choice: Adapt and buy from the local growers or grow their own. Regardless from the info reef central has shown a ban wouldn't be good for this country and world. And it sure wouldn't even make even the slightest difference in our oceans. IMO our hobbyist tank grown SPS should never be returned to the ocean under any circumstance. As someone will eventually introduce a new pest to a new area. Flat worms introduced to an acropora reef would be devastating just as an example


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gmerek2]

Growing mariculture corals or protecting/farming wild reefs protects them. If you take away even a small part of their economic value they will suffer further. Local people can't live off the fact they live in a beautiful area, tourism may pay in some areas. Sustainable harvesting is in the best interests of us all for the time being.

Are there coral police? I'm mainly being silly. but if people depend on corals to put food on their plate...how do we know they don't harvest ocean colonys in the dark of the night then chop up the wild colony, encrust it and call it a home grown mariculture coral.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moort82]

Are there coral police? I'm mainly being silly. but if people depend on corals to put food on their plate...how do we know they don't harvest ocean colonys in the dark of the night then chop up the wild colony, encrust it and call it a home grown mariculture coral.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What you describe without the shady night time fragging is mariculture. You take a piece of wild coral, frag it up and grow it out to several corals.
The coral police in this instance are CITES. They control the movement of corals around the world and without paperwork you won't get passed customs. Each species has quotas depending on how abundant it is in that area.

Many mariculture facilities have a sell one, replant one philosophy. Or at least a certain percentage of what they grow is put back on the reef.

 

[Moort82]

I see you also suggested lfs grow their own corals. This may work in the US but wouldn't over in Europe. There is an issue with space, not to mention rents, utilities and simply the time to grow them whilst producing enough for their turnover, which would make coral farms at stores prohibitive. I agree the US has a far far more aquaculture industry but apart from the great job people are doing with fish, the coral side is simply harder because it makes more sense to grow things where they naturally grow taking advantage of natural resources, than to artificially mass produce where you have to input everything. This is why coral farms don't work in Europe, they are too energy intensive and by having every lfs grow their own, prices will have to shoot up to pay for it.
I think it would have more chance of working in the US, simply because you have the named coral craze where paying more for a half inch frag, than we'd pay for a colony, seems to work.

 

[Rakie]

I really feel like USA could produce all of our own SPS corals. I have trouble selling locally lots of supply little demand for the common SPS frags. BAN all imported SPS to save oceans and stimulate USA economy? Just a friendly discussion

You are definitely being judgmental. The point of me sharing the selling and supply/demand was to show that there are so many frags out there that maybe we could produce enough home grown supply in the USA to keep up with demand. Thanks for basically calling me weird. merry Christmas to you too.

The way you phrased it doesn't sound that way, it sounds more like you're trying to sell stuff nobody wants and then complaining about it. That kind of polarized the conversation is an extremely negative light. So even if he were being judgemental, you definitely sounded like you were being judgemental in your opening statement to the entire hobby.

As an FYI, If you try and sell high end frags, people literally outbid one another, supply cannot possibly keep up with demand when you have something worth having. It's almost impossible to find anything good out there, and my area is THE mecca for reef keepers. I don't know where you're from, but the only place that can even stand in the shadow of what Southern California offers us is Florida -- Cali has more of everything than anybody, as well as the majority of the wholesalers in the nation.

And you know what I have REAL trouble finding? Nice sticks. Anybody who isn't from here would say I'm crazy. But for many of us down here, the only way to find something unique, colorful, interesting, and uncommon is to hunt Aussie SPS imports. The stuff that fails to impress me is like a wet dream to 99% of reefers outside of the area. So I can definitively tell you -- We definitely need imports to keep coming our way.

coral reefs were commonly mined for building materials like Concrete and Cement. Any guesses whose leading the charge to stop that?

The global fish trade has actually greatly helped reefs. Fisherman used to catch and eat little reef fish and some have been fished into functional extinction. Suddenly, people showed up telling them these little bite sized colorful fish were worth a lot of money. This made their lives better as it brought income, jobs, agriculture, education, and sustainable foodstuffs that aren't bite-sized fish. This has had a noted positive impact in many small undeveloped regions. Look at some of the MACNA speeches about this very subject.

This also doesn't even touch on the fact that us as reefkeepers have LARGE supplies of corals that we can use to help repopulate reefs in the case of extreme cataclysmic emergency. Have you ever heard of the world seed bank? We have the largest seed bank of every known species of plant in the world in case of emergency. It's deep underground in a snowy region where it's impossible for the seeds to be contaminated with foreign pollen. This is literally a global restart that has been put in place with 10's of millions of dollar and support from almost every country on the planet because we all realize there *could* be a cataclysmic event one day.

We reef keepers are the closest thing to that seed bank for coral reefs -- which are arguably one of the most important ecosystems on earth.

technology on reef tanks is getting better and how much more info is out there on growing SPS I think imports will slowly fade with the increase on growth

Growing Technology on reefs doesn't give me a new colored Acro. What makes reefs exciting is the new. If every coral that would ever be discovered were already discovered and available we'd all burn out and most people would tire of reefing. That's like not buying the new 2016 BMW because they already made one in the 1970's

Are there coral police? I'm mainly being silly. but if people depend on corals to put food on their plate...how do we know they don't harvest ocean colonys in the dark of the night then chop up the wild colony, encrust it and call it a home grown mariculture coral.

Yes, there are coral police. CITES and MAC certification is a thing, it's set up by the large exporters themselves to make sure that corals are there for tomorrow.

Maricultured corals are NOT done by some random person, but by huge coral export corporations. There is no "in the dark of the night", there's no market where shady back-alley coral deals go down. These people are employees of LARGE global coral exporters.

Here's some easy research. Merry christmas!


Mac Certification

Coral Reef Conservation (AKA, reef fish die out from eating not reef keeping)

"What does it take? Who benefits? What have we learned?" (AKA, How reefing has brought Agriculture, Technology, Jobs, Education and more to rural areas)

Restoring Coral Reefs (AKA, how human suck -- Spoiler -- bacteria in fecal matter destroying many reefs)

EDIT: BUT, things are still not so nice for fish import / export. Corals have come a long way, but fish have a lot way to go yet

The truth behind sustainability -- Cairs Marine (AKA, don't trust the Indo Pacific, ever)

 

[Piper27]

IMO our hobbyist tank grown SPS should never be returned to the ocean under any circumstance. As someone will eventually introduce a new pest to a new area. Flat worms introduced to an acropora reef would be devastating just as an example


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If we reintroduce any corals to the ocean the proper precautions will be taken to not introduce anything that was not there originally. I do wonder if there are any acropora reefs that do not have any aefw? But I think that not giving back to the reefs what we have taken just because of possible pests is not something to worry about. If we are rebuilding the reefs with our corals, there most likely won't be any corals left to worry about. Plus we have the proper methods to make sure everything introduced would be clean of any pests.