Banded and Multi-band Pipefish: Early experiences

[small alien]

Greetings friends. First, a quick shout out to the folks who frequent this particular forum. Seahorse and pipefish keepers seem thoughtful and mellow over-all and I appreciate what I read here from many of you.

I obtained a banded pipefish 2 1/2 weeks ago and a Yellow Multi-Band (please forgive the lack of scientific nomenclature) 4 days ago.

The banded began eating frozen mysis right away and also takes arcti-pods, cyclopeeze, live and live tigger pods. Surprisingly, not so much for the prawn roe which my dragon face pipes love.

The multi-band has only been seen eating the live arcti-pods and that's no long-term solution. I've tried all the above foods plus live brine. It's only eaten the live copepods. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Here are some pics.

The multi is a little skinny in the stomach but okay over-all but I need to get it eating. Please excuse the algae. Though it keeps the nitrates in check

 

[namxas]

yellow-bandeds (Doryhamphus pessuliferus) are very difficult to get eating well IME, and i typically warn folks off of them for that reason. live pods is really about all they truly get excited over, and even then, i'm not sure about them. they always seem to come into the LFS emaciated, and that may be part of the problem. it's too bad, as they're gorgeous fish. you might try small ghost shrimp or baby guppies to get it eating.

bandeds (D. dactyliophorous), Janss' (D. janssi), and bluestripes (D. excisus) tend to fare much better, IME.

good luck with the pessuliferus. let us know how it goes.

 

[small alien]

Thanks. I did know going in that they were probably the most difficult of the commonly collected species. But there it was and it looked reasonably full in the body so I went for it. I hope I have an exception.

 

[fishchef]

I have a couple of banded that's been in my tank for a couple of weeks now. They have been eating a mix of frozen rotifers, cyclopeeze, prawn eggs, and have been seen eating enriched brine. I do soak food in Selcon twice a week. By the way I noticed some Cardinals in your pics. What other fish do you have in with them?

 

[small alien]

Thanks for your reply. I have the Bangaii, a male ocellated dragonet that I've kept for two years solely on prepared foods, and a green banded goby that is fatter than heck due to the heavy feeding of the other fishes. Plus a spectacular crop of hair algae. I'm going to be upgrading soon, so I've kinda let the hair algae go. It is amazing how it keeps nitrates at 0 despite all the feeding.

Any pics of your pipes, fishchef? Do you know if you have a m/f pair?

Best, small the alien

 

[small alien]

Evening of the 5th day, the pessuliferus just ate 3 1/2 mysis! Woo hoo! That's pretty goll darned exciting!! I know y'all know the feeling. That's the first big step toward potential long term survival. I wonder if my hope going in has been a factor and that is that the pessuliferus would "learn" how to eat frozen from the dactyliophorus. I don't suppose I'll ever know the answer to that. They do swim together and interact a lot. It's absolutely stunning to watch them move, sometimes in relative unison. So awesome! :fun4:

 

[small alien]

Quick update. Dropped in some more mysis about an hour later and D. p. took a few more pieces. Hooray! Also took a couple of arcti-pods.

I noticed that D. p. seems more interested in taking food off the substrate whereas D. d. prefers to take it out of the water column. Hunting styles seem somewhat distinct.

Big wind storm coming tonight. Hopefully no power outage! :hmm1:

 

[small alien]

Quick update. Morning of day 6 in my care for D. p., day 20 for D. d.

Both ate mysis soaked in vitamins this morning. Maybe 3 pieces each while I was watching. I turn off the flow for an hour or so when I feed and don't watch the whole thing.

Really noticed the difference in hunting styles between the two Doryhamphus. D. p. cruises the substrate with it's mouth about a centimeter from the sand. Then will circle around a piece of mysis slowly...looking at it...and then it will roll slightly so as to be able to strike with its upturned mouth....and....snap!

D. d. seems to only take the mysis when it's suspended in the water column. It loses interest once the food hits the sand.

Just anecdotal, but I think it's quite interesting. Anyone have any good info about their natural habitats and if that difference in hunting/feeding style is present in nature?

Cheers, smallish

 

[D3monic_Urges]

I am tagging along small. I am currently in the process of putting together a seagrass macro tank that I plan on housing different species of pipes in. I should be getting a turtle grass order in today. I wish you the best and GL!

 

[namxas]

that's huge news about the pessuliferus! IME, it's getting the fish to try the food that's a HUGE part of the battle. please do keep the updates coming.

 

[small alien]

Thanks, all. Nice to have some folks to share my enthusiasm with. I'll keep updating as we go. Cheers.

 

[small alien]

I am tagging along small. I am currently in the process of putting together a seagrass macro tank that I plan on housing different species of pipes in. I should be getting a turtle grass order in today. I wish you the best and GL!

Please post some pics of your turtle grass and any special care requirements you're aware of. Good luck with your new tank.

 

[Elysia]

Congrats small alien! I always shutter a bit when I see the multibandeds, because people seem to have such trouble with them. I'm glad it is eating for you. Not to rain on your parade, but I do want to caution that it may not be out of the woods yet. I had what I thought was a nice, healthy looking dragon face that was eating for me, yet it didn't make two weeks in captivity. I assume something happened when it was captured/shipped/held, but I don't know what that "something" was. It was a real disappointment, though. I certainly hope that won't be the case with this multibanded (or the bandeds, for that matter.)

I know that it is likely "conventional wisdom" that fish "don't learn," but I have watch way too many fish in captivity that seem to observe a novel behavior in another fish and subsequently start to display that behavior to deny that fish have the capacity to learn.

 

[small alien]

My understanding of how they would learn would be via "morphic fields" as described by British biologist Rupert Sheldrake.

I tried discussing his ideas on the reef fish forum but no one seemed quite able to understand. Maybe you folks will get it.

His theory of Morphic Resonance revolutionizes the way we understand the origin of forms in nature as well as "inherited" or instinctual behaviors. I encourage everyone to check out his books. He's the cutting edge of thinking on these issues. Here's his website.

http://www.sheldrake.org/homepage.html

The gist of how his ideas would apply to this situation is that members of a species (or family in this case) are in "resonance" with each other across space and time. And there are "fields" of "information" associated with a given group that contain the blueprints for their collective form and behaviors. The more a behavior is repeated within the group, the stronger the field for that behavior becomes and the more likely it is that the behavior will be repeated. So, the more pipefish we can get eating frozen foods, the more likely it will be that subsequent pipefish will "learn" how.

 

[small alien]

Both pipes ate several mysis each last evening. I think the feeding response in D. p. is becoming a bit stronger. Both are largely interested only in mysis. I would think they'd take cyclopeeze, prawn roe and arcti-pods, but not so much.

My two dragon face pipes take only the roe and cyclopeeze. They're not much for the arcti-pods and mysis appears to be too big for their very wee mouths. They've been in a 10 gal with a Rainford's Goby for several months and appear full and healthy on two feedings per day with no flow for an hour each time.

When I get them all into the 75 I'm setting up, I guess I'll just have to feed a mixture of foods at every feeding. I'd kinda hoped they might all eat the same things.

Neither of the tanks these pipefish are in now have anything in the way of pod populations, so this is really a test of whether these fish can be kept exclusively on prepared foods (2X per day). So far, so good.

 

[D3monic_Urges]

Might want to try some Hikari bloodworms. I have had good luck training mandarins and scooters with them and they are just the right size and shape for pipe-fish of all sizes including the dragonface. I got my sea grass order yesterday....talk about a pain in the butt. Every blade was pretty much individually planted. The turtle grass wasn't so bad since I only had 6 stalks but the shoal grass took a while. I emailed Russ from Gulf-coast ecosystems and picked his brain on how they do it in their aquaculture facility. He stated they use a Mixture of eco-complete FW plant substrate and aragonite. Coupled with dry ferts. So what I did is Mixed a 20lb bag of eco-complete with several inches of sand from the left side of my tank. Then place about a inch of fresh sand over it so you wouldn't see the black substrate. I also place a tab of Seachem's flourish at the base of each turtle grass rhizome. Here's a very short video of the tank. Don't mind the dragons tongue it didn't do to well in shipping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcx46hJRAgQ

As far as stocking I am probably looking at striped shrimp fish, dragon face and maybe the yellow multi banded. Peka will probably strangle me if I don't get some SH in there as well but obviously there's the issue of mixing WC and CB.

 

[small alien]

That looks fantastic Mr./Ms. Urges. Thanks for sharing.

That grass sounds very labor intensive to put it. I'll be very interested to hear how you do with the shrimp fish.

How big is the tank? What temp will you keep it at?

Good luck! :spin2:

 

[D3monic_Urges]

Its a 75gal with only 45lbs of live rock in the DT. Temps are holding steady around 74-76. Shrimp fish will be interesting. I am concidering them because of the way they swim virtically in the sea grasses. Janss are up on the top of my list as well. Im sure Peka and Diane will herrase me to put some SH in there as well. I may end up doing that dispite the risk of mixing CB WC specimens. Ill just make sure I QT and deworm the pipes.

 

[small alien]

How is it recommended to deworm pipes?

Also, D. p. and D. d. each have a couple spots of ich. What is the recommended procedure for pipes with ich?

I'm primarily focused on feeding but they will need to be treated somehow before being added to the new tank.

 

[small alien]

Urge, what kind of lighting are you planning on for your new tank?