Bare Bottom pros or cons?
- Thread starter scunfcu
- Start date
King-Kong
New member
I'm not sure what that means...
Someone made a claim of fact that skimmers *only* remove organic matter after it has decomposed, and they are incapable of pulling out anything larger. I stated an observable fact otherwise. It's not speculation.. cause I didnt put that shrimp molt in my skimmer's cup.
Unarce
Unshackled
Just that you were implying that a successful BB tank nowadays would require a 'real skimmer' to remove larger pieces instead of '*only* remove organic matter after it has decomposed'?
I'm sure there's a large percentage of BB reefers that don't have a skimmer as capable as that, but still manage.
I'm sure there's a large percentage of BB reefers that don't have a skimmer as capable as that, but still manage.
King-Kong
New member
I didnt imply anything -- you made up something that doesnt exist.
All I said was, "Sorry -- maybe 20 years ago. My skimmer pulls out whole shrimp molts. A real skimmer, these days, is capable of removing large pieces of organic matter well before it has the chance to break down."
I said NOTHING about general BB theory, and certainly didnt say that a "successfull BB tank" requires a "real skimmer".
Don't insert or read into something that isnt there.
All I said was, "Sorry -- maybe 20 years ago. My skimmer pulls out whole shrimp molts. A real skimmer, these days, is capable of removing large pieces of organic matter well before it has the chance to break down."
I said NOTHING about general BB theory, and certainly didnt say that a "successfull BB tank" requires a "real skimmer".
Don't insert or read into something that isnt there.
King-Kong
New member
If you dont have anything on the bottom, (so just glass), and you paint the underside, or use some material underneath, then it should be really easy for you to scrape corraline off the glass.
I have starboard, and I cant take a razorblade to it, and scraping the corraline is much more difficult. To that extent I envy the glass-only people.
mitchellmoto
Member
I'm converting as we speak. I have a deep sand bed and it works great but I'm tired of the maintanence of it. I haven't near enough flow and sand is everywhere. And the dreaded powerhead falling off and creating a 1/2 barebottom tank has happened to me as well.
I will be running a RDSB in my sump/ refuge and would take care of the diversity issue someone was complaining about.
And for the people that like the sand look there is the Faux sandbeds. Even though they eventually will be covered in coraline.
Looks are are also an opinion. yes DSB look nice but I like that doctor office clean you get with BB.
I've been to the reefs and most of the coral isn't even near the sand. Almost all of it grows on the reef not on the sand. I'm sure there are some but most do not.
Please don't take this as a hit to anyone. I currently run DSB and it works great but I want some change and tons more flow and the sand is just not cutting it everytime I add more. There is so much sand on my rock it is insane.
I personally say either can be done with great succsess it is all up to what works for you.
And King-Kong I I've been following you guys over in the BB thread on TRT And like your tank setup.
Haven't regestered there yet but I've been reading like a madman trying to get ready for the conversion from DSB to BB
I will be running a RDSB in my sump/ refuge and would take care of the diversity issue someone was complaining about.
And for the people that like the sand look there is the Faux sandbeds. Even though they eventually will be covered in coraline.
Looks are are also an opinion. yes DSB look nice but I like that doctor office clean you get with BB.
I've been to the reefs and most of the coral isn't even near the sand. Almost all of it grows on the reef not on the sand. I'm sure there are some but most do not.
Please don't take this as a hit to anyone. I currently run DSB and it works great but I want some change and tons more flow and the sand is just not cutting it everytime I add more. There is so much sand on my rock it is insane.
I personally say either can be done with great succsess it is all up to what works for you.
And King-Kong I I've been following you guys over in the BB thread on TRT And like your tank setup.
Haven't regestered there yet but I've been reading like a madman trying to get ready for the conversion from DSB to BB
King-Kong
New member
I'm not going to do the foot work for you, but i seriously hope you dont think a SSB (~0-2" of sand) has anaerbic layers of bacteria in it. If so, you're disputing folks like Anthony Calfo.
And I still dont even understand how it "looks" like i implied anything. You just wanted to think that, but I made my statement as simple and clear as possible. In fact, not once in did I even say BB, so for you to somehow extend that to a discussion on BB theory is concerning.
And I still dont even understand how it "looks" like i implied anything. You just wanted to think that, but I made my statement as simple and clear as possible. In fact, not once in did I even say BB, so for you to somehow extend that to a discussion on BB theory is concerning.
HBtank
Premium Member
KK you also speculate that your LR has the same exact fauna diversity that a SSB has.
I really do not know what you based that on.... It really does not fit with anything I learned in my studies. Organisms fill niches, and have evolved to fill those niches. To say sand and LR present the same niche in reef aquaria is kind of silly.
Rats and cockroaches can live almost anywhere, but do not represent all life on earth. To point at a few generalists as reasoning that a house and a forest provide the same diversity just does not follow anything I have read.
Anyways, I will stand by my point, 90% speculation in these threads, and that is a perfect example.
Not to mention the person you quoted was talking about BOTH SSB and DSB for fuana diversity, but you went on about just SSB in regards to diversity as well as anaerobic bacteria (something he never even mentioned). Seemed funny to me you chose to pick on the "small guy"
I always find these threads interesting, it generally follows the rule of the "tren setting" BB users on the offensive against DSB's. And never with one source to back it all up.
I really do not know what you based that on.... It really does not fit with anything I learned in my studies. Organisms fill niches, and have evolved to fill those niches. To say sand and LR present the same niche in reef aquaria is kind of silly.
Rats and cockroaches can live almost anywhere, but do not represent all life on earth. To point at a few generalists as reasoning that a house and a forest provide the same diversity just does not follow anything I have read.
Anyways, I will stand by my point, 90% speculation in these threads, and that is a perfect example.
Not to mention the person you quoted was talking about BOTH SSB and DSB for fuana diversity, but you went on about just SSB in regards to diversity as well as anaerobic bacteria (something he never even mentioned). Seemed funny to me you chose to pick on the "small guy"
I always find these threads interesting, it generally follows the rule of the "tren setting" BB users on the offensive against DSB's. And never with one source to back it all up.
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Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I'm willing to bet KK"s liverock contains more microfaunal diversity than you'll find in a typical SSB.
I know mine does.
Get enough crud accumulated at the bottom of a BB aquarium and the substrate (if you want to call it that) can contain more microfauna per inch than you'd find in a typical 'clean' DSB reef aquarium because populations are a direct result of food availability. (Obviously diversity will depend on what's introduced to the aquarium). This brings up another good point- most of the microfauna found in reef aquaria arrive in/on liverock or as hitch-hikers on corals, not in sand samples.
You can call it speculation but the fact remains- bare bottom reef aquaria were "in" during the early 80's. DSB's arrived later. There's many good reasons that reefkeepers have returned to running BB and to call these reasons all specualtiuon is simply not true.
this thread is in regards to setting up a 75 gallon SPS reef aquarium and the pros and cons of running BB.
HB- it doesn't appear that you have a SPS reef aquarium. All the photos in your gallery are softies...
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HBtank
Premium Member
I thank you for your interest in my tank, I guess I do need to update my gallery lol. I currently have about 20 Acro species, 7 Montipora, three Stylophora, and one Seriatopia
I do also have around 10 species of LPS and thousands of Zoanthids/paly's, and many various shrooms, some GSP etc..
Some random shots
And of course the nasty sand bed in question
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Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I agree with KK.
Unless you specifically purchase some sand for the (sandbed) critters it contains you'll only have the species diversity that arrives as hitch-hikers on your liverock. In most cases this translates into no additional "special" diversity being provided by sand beds.
Nice pix of some nice corals. It looks like you're phasing out the softies. Maybe it's time to consider phasing out the in-tank DSB
HBtank
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11230052#post11230052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
I agree with KK.
Unless you specifically purchase some sand for the (sandbed) critters it contains you'll only have the species diversity that arrives as hitch-hikers on your liverock. In most cases this translates into no additional "special" diversity being provided by sand beds.
Nice pix of some nice corals. It looks like you're phasing out the softies. Maybe it's time to consider phasing out the in-tank DSB
But, remember, human hitchikers do not "live" in cars...
Just like you can get species specific pests from non related species you purchase.
Anyways, yes, you can definately make a SB more diverse by specifically stocking it..
I never thought I would like the "brown sticks", as I used to call them. Well I do now, but my wallet doesn't..lol
King-Kong
New member
Gary said it better than I did, so I'll leave it at that.
As for "speculation" related to anaerobic bacteria populations existing in SSBs, some things are known to be truths because theyve been well documented and researched, and we dont have to re-invent the wheel every time the discussion pops up. SSB's dont contain the depths necessary to facilitate growth of anaerobic bacteria for the consumption of nitrates; DSB's do.
The world is also round, and we orbit the sun; do we need to post literature everytime this comes up, or can we begin to accept certain simple things in this hobby?
As for "speculation" related to anaerobic bacteria populations existing in SSBs, some things are known to be truths because theyve been well documented and researched, and we dont have to re-invent the wheel every time the discussion pops up. SSB's dont contain the depths necessary to facilitate growth of anaerobic bacteria for the consumption of nitrates; DSB's do.
The world is also round, and we orbit the sun; do we need to post literature everytime this comes up, or can we begin to accept certain simple things in this hobby?
Flatlander
Premium Member
In your opinion. :lol:
