Pufferpunk
New member
Guess that is another reason I love my DSB--I have 7 other tanks to care for!
???Bare Bottom Tanks??? +/-'s
- Thread starter RRafael
- Start date
Rod Buehler
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7121658#post7121658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sellout007
Does he need to? We all know what he is going to say anyway!
Yes, I think most do, but Ill say some of it anyway. I would never set up a bare bottom again. Plain and simple, I dont like the looks of a BB tank. Even with the BB tanks that do look pretty good (I have seen some ) , I cant help to think that they would much better with sand.
Even if there is a possibility of a sand bed going bad (which I dont beleive if set up properly), I would simply remove it and replace it.
First let me say that there are many ways to run a reef and they can all work.
Pros of a sand bed:
1) Denitrifacation. There is not a better place for harboring anaerobic bacteria. Nothing will denitrify like a DSB
2) asthetics: DSB just look so much better to me
3) allows me to overfeed because the micro critters and worms will clean things up for me, and then the DSB will denitrify any ammonia that might be produced by any uneaten food.
4) the natural food source that is provided for the corals by the sand bed critters. Sometimes the critters themselves, but mostly the spawns of the critters that end up in the water column. And also the feces that is excreted by these critters is a great food source for the corals.
5)Biodiversity. Not just the micro critters, but I like to keep natural habitats for sand dwelling animals like, Anemones, jawfish, pistol shrimp, (some ) clams. trachyphyllia, fungia, etc..
Cons of a sand bed
1) scratching acrylic. (the reason I hate acrylic.. with glass, I use a razor blade. Not a magnet that could trap a sharp grain of larger sand)
Some things that may cause problems with a sand bed
1) grain size: if the grain size is too large it becomes a detritus trap, and if too much detritus sinks, the phosphates build.( I hate bagged live sand). The finer the better. (southdown, ESV, Carib sea 00930 sugar size oolitic, and even silica)
2) Waterflow too weak: if you dont have enough current and not enough critters, detritus can settle (Phosphate sink)
3) sand sifting stars/fish. They are after all of teh critters as a food source. Those critters are what make the sand bed function properly. Without the critters recyclingthe detritus back into the water column where it becomes a food source and where it can be skimmed out, the detritus would settle (phosphate sink)
4)Too many fish that prey upon the microcritters (wrasses etc..)
5) UV sterilizers (and Ozone?). They kill indiscriminately. Yes, many critters will still survive, but its my beleif that many more would be present if UV is not used.
6) bagged live sand.. Many newbies go into a store and see bagged "live sand", and remember thatthe read on the internet that live sand was needed. They often never give a second thought about seeding with real live sand that actually contains live critters.
7) not seeding your sand with actual live microcritters.. Not just the ones that are visable, but the ones you need a scope to view.
8)filter socks... Filter socks rob some of the critters (and skimmers) of their food source, and unless cleaned very often they turn the detritus into disolved organics which are very difficult to remove from the tanks.
If any of the previous sounds like your tank, you may have caused irreversable dammage
Some myths about DSB
1)buffering. I guess there may be some happening, but not enough to say that you want a DSB for buffering capibilities
2) water flow.. Many say that you can get good flow with sand.. I disagree. The sand will settle.. It may not settle where you would like it to, but it will settle. The critters will hold it in place
3) critters filling the sand bed with excretements.. Some think that when the critters eat the excess food and detritus they process it into the sand, but most of the critters actually put their rear ends up into the water column to excrete, and then it becomes food for your corals and for your skimmer
4) sand beds are too nutrient rich for SPS corals: Ive never understood this.. DSB are superior at denitrifying while BB people that use filter socks are putting disolved organics back into the system when th edetritus is disolved with the water passing through. I have taken sand bed samples from deep, and tested for po4 with a hanna meter.. 0 po4
I am sure there is more.. but thats all I have time for ATM..
I use Key West Arag. alive sand, LS that is, pure white and looks awesome IMO and others from what I hear. I only uses about a 2-3 inch bed, works great and looks great. I've never wanted a DSB/BB, but whatever works for you is cool. I'm happy with a med. bed. Looks cool, that's all I care about.
scubaduderon
Member
I think a bb will work fine.
I think a bb will work fine.
I have run them with no problems for a long time (9 yrs). As long as you have a lot of rock to make up for the lack of de-nitrification the sand bed provides you'll be ok.
I don't find detritus to be a problem. As a matter of fact I find it to be a benefit of sorts. It allows lots of spagetti worms to live in the tank. They make little burrows and pull the detritus around themselves. You must have a good cleanup crew to sift through the bottom and eat most of the damaging organic material left over from feeding. Once in a while I will blow the bottom of the tank out with a magnum 350. Corals love it.
Currently I have changed to a coral rubble bottom. It looks nicer than a completely bare bottom but doesn't have nearly the down side of dsb (thanks Mimosa).
I forgot one thing, you must have a powerful skimmer. The bigger, the better. I just purchased a new one to cover increased feading due to new corals and clean up critters. 40 gallon tank, skimmer rating 185 gallons....
Ron
I think a bb will work fine.
I have run them with no problems for a long time (9 yrs). As long as you have a lot of rock to make up for the lack of de-nitrification the sand bed provides you'll be ok.
I don't find detritus to be a problem. As a matter of fact I find it to be a benefit of sorts. It allows lots of spagetti worms to live in the tank. They make little burrows and pull the detritus around themselves. You must have a good cleanup crew to sift through the bottom and eat most of the damaging organic material left over from feeding. Once in a while I will blow the bottom of the tank out with a magnum 350. Corals love it.
Currently I have changed to a coral rubble bottom. It looks nicer than a completely bare bottom but doesn't have nearly the down side of dsb (thanks Mimosa).
I forgot one thing, you must have a powerful skimmer. The bigger, the better. I just purchased a new one to cover increased feading due to new corals and clean up critters. 40 gallon tank, skimmer rating 185 gallons....
Ron
Dag
Premium Member
I couldn't grow SPS till I took out my DSB. It was full of creatures and smelled good, but still couldn't grow SPS.
More pluses to BB:
1) more room in the tank;
2) no ugly view of side of DSB;
3) corals don't die if they fall down;
4) you can clean the glass all the way to the bottom without having to stop short of the sand bed.
The bottom of my tank is recessed about 2" below the lip of the stand, so maybe that's why I never understood those who complain about the aesthetics. I have zoos growing on the bottom of the tank. Looks better than sand.
More pluses to BB:
1) more room in the tank;
2) no ugly view of side of DSB;
3) corals don't die if they fall down;
4) you can clean the glass all the way to the bottom without having to stop short of the sand bed.
The bottom of my tank is recessed about 2" below the lip of the stand, so maybe that's why I never understood those who complain about the aesthetics. I have zoos growing on the bottom of the tank. Looks better than sand.
sellout007
New member
So what am I doing wrong with my BB tank as I cant get my amonia/nitrates under control?
110g BB tank
30g sump
MR2 skimmer (rated for a 300g tank)
ReeFlo Dart (3500gph) as a CL
Tunze 6060(1300gph) extra flow in tank
Mag 7 as my return
All my rock is elevated off the floor and have massive current that sweeps 90% of the stuff off the bottom of the tank.
Myabe I just need to be more patient and wait a month or two and see if things lvl off. I did just switch tanks a month or two ago when I moved.
I dunno.
110g BB tank
30g sump
MR2 skimmer (rated for a 300g tank)
ReeFlo Dart (3500gph) as a CL
Tunze 6060(1300gph) extra flow in tank
Mag 7 as my return
All my rock is elevated off the floor and have massive current that sweeps 90% of the stuff off the bottom of the tank.
Myabe I just need to be more patient and wait a month or two and see if things lvl off. I did just switch tanks a month or two ago when I moved.
I dunno.
Rod Buehler
New member
Thanks Menard.. By the way, Its nice to see you visiting and helping the boards!
Rod Buehler
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7122695#post7122695 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pk1
Also, white sand reflects light back up to the underside of corals
Yes, thats another good point
Rod Buehler
New member
Exactly Garrick! And they can all work well
sellout007
New member
Go sit on a stick!
BTW still waiting for any advice on my problem...
jgleach
New member
If amonia is a problem, either your tank is still cycling or.....your tank is still cycling....give it a little time and keep testing. You haven't mentioned what your readings are. You also haven't mentioned your fish load, your water changes, what your skimmer is skimming...heavy, thick, wet? Just a few questions that should be answered to even think about suggesting what you might be doing wrong....
sellout007
New member
I guess it could still be cycling, thats an awful long cycle though! About 2 months. o)
My fish load is really small. Four fish, Purple Tang (3.5"), Coris Wrasse (3"), Royal Gramma (2.5") and a Lawnmower Blenny (3.5").
I did a water change two weeks ago, going to do one this week and follow up with another in 3-4 days. Ill change out 30g each time.
I was skimming back and forth trying to dial in my new skimmer and get the hang of it. I skimmed wet and dry.
