Bare Bottom vs. Sand
- Thread starter jaredloo
- Start date
sir_dudeguy
Active member
For the most part i think its just people who do sps only tanks that do the bare bottom. I guess you dont have to worry about the sand trapping crud and whatnot, but i'm not sure. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it was more of a longterm thing...i thought it said something about sand building up stuff after a long long time, whereas if you have no sand...nothing to build up 
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
Very key part to BB keeping!
azrednex
New member
It's a catch 22 you go bare bottom to stop the crud from building up were you can't see it and for this you need a huge amount of flow (an amount of flow that would creat a sand storm in a tank that was not BB anyway). It does work but IMO these tanks are never as complete as I would want mine to be (there is much less life in the tank (microstars, pods, bristle worms))
jaredloo
In Memoriam
Good point, nowhere for those tiny inverts to roam. Although, I guess you could cure that by adding a fuge, and a deep sand bed in the sump. But, I guess if you're going to add a deep sand bed in the sump, you might as well go and put it in the tank.
My concern with the BB tank is that there is no other place, other than the LR for low pH where Nitrate can be converted to gas and be exported from the tank. Also, the lower pH areas provide a place for Ca reaction to occur. How can you make up for that in a BB tank?
I do see how a BB tank would be nice for not collecting all of the detritus and crud though. That would be nice.
My concern with the BB tank is that there is no other place, other than the LR for low pH where Nitrate can be converted to gas and be exported from the tank. Also, the lower pH areas provide a place for Ca reaction to occur. How can you make up for that in a BB tank?
I do see how a BB tank would be nice for not collecting all of the detritus and crud though. That would be nice.
I think the LR should do the nitrate to gas conversion. However, the theory behind BB is that products are exports before they can become nitrate.
I don't know which is better, but I don't like the look of barebottom. To ME, it looks unnatural. I have seen the tanks and it doesn't look like the reef. I have been diving and the reefs are surrounded by a "sea of sand." Besides, I just love all of animals the live in and on the sand, including fishes like wrasses.
It is all rather subjective though. Both will work if you do the right thing. It is just what you prefer.
The bad part about a DSB for me is finding enough sand, now that Southdown is no longer available.
I don't know which is better, but I don't like the look of barebottom. To ME, it looks unnatural. I have seen the tanks and it doesn't look like the reef. I have been diving and the reefs are surrounded by a "sea of sand." Besides, I just love all of animals the live in and on the sand, including fishes like wrasses.
It is all rather subjective though. Both will work if you do the right thing. It is just what you prefer.
The bad part about a DSB for me is finding enough sand, now that Southdown is no longer available.
check this out, it's a BB tank of the month, March 2007, he makes a good point about going BB, and he has a ton of life...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/totm/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/totm/index.php
bajabum
New member
IMO it is bare bottom or deep sand. In between causes ammonia build up that gets into water column. I use pistol shrimp and keep my rock off the bottom to minimize ammonia build up in shallow beds.
High light/high flow bare bottom drives coral growth during photoperiod.
High nutrient systems with algae growth/bugs drives coral growth during the low light dark cycle during polyp extension.
I use high nutrient systems to conserve electricity and equipment expenses. Deep sand beds really help in this enviroment.
Different coral mix for different systems.
IMO barebottom is an invatation to disaster during vaction time when the nonexpert is feeding and cleaning. Deep sand beds provide some moderation until they overload or are disturbed. I am placing my deepsand (not fine) bed tanks into the system so they can be isolated for maintainance should they have a problem.
Both systems have a gotcha in them.
High light/high flow bare bottom drives coral growth during photoperiod.
High nutrient systems with algae growth/bugs drives coral growth during the low light dark cycle during polyp extension.
I use high nutrient systems to conserve electricity and equipment expenses. Deep sand beds really help in this enviroment.
Different coral mix for different systems.
IMO barebottom is an invatation to disaster during vaction time when the nonexpert is feeding and cleaning. Deep sand beds provide some moderation until they overload or are disturbed. I am placing my deepsand (not fine) bed tanks into the system so they can be isolated for maintainance should they have a problem.
Both systems have a gotcha in them.
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
I believe you should not use a sand bed in your fuge either if BB, at least that's what i've read.
jaredloo
In Memoriam
Everyone is talking about DSB collecting detritus and overloading. Doesn't anyone here clean their sand bed. Or replace it like Delbeek does?
Delbeek replaces half of his sand bed every 2 years. He does one side at a time. He also siphons the SB to clean out buildup. I know lots of people say not to sipon or disturb the SB, but if done correctly it doesn't cause problems.
What I do to prevent buildup is stick the sipon deep into the sand without kicking anything up, while plugging the other end of the tube with my thumb. Then I let it siphon and pull sand into the siphon tube. When the water is clear, I plug the end stopping the flow of siphon and let the sand settle to the bed. Then I lift the tube and do the next section. It takes a lot longer, and for a 10% change it might only allow for 25% of the DSB to be cleaned, but you just start on the next change where you left off on the previous one.
If you use the siphon in a vacumming motion, it kicks everything up so you have to be careful to not kick anything up.
I like the idea of the BB tank, but I don't think I like the look of it. And I like the different animals that can be kept with a DSB. I think for my next setup I will go DSB again, but keep the rocks off the bottom as much as possible, clean the Sand every couple weeks, and replace 1/2 of the sand every year or two.
Anyone else use this method?
Delbeek replaces half of his sand bed every 2 years. He does one side at a time. He also siphons the SB to clean out buildup. I know lots of people say not to sipon or disturb the SB, but if done correctly it doesn't cause problems.
What I do to prevent buildup is stick the sipon deep into the sand without kicking anything up, while plugging the other end of the tube with my thumb. Then I let it siphon and pull sand into the siphon tube. When the water is clear, I plug the end stopping the flow of siphon and let the sand settle to the bed. Then I lift the tube and do the next section. It takes a lot longer, and for a 10% change it might only allow for 25% of the DSB to be cleaned, but you just start on the next change where you left off on the previous one.
If you use the siphon in a vacumming motion, it kicks everything up so you have to be careful to not kick anything up.
I like the idea of the BB tank, but I don't think I like the look of it. And I like the different animals that can be kept with a DSB. I think for my next setup I will go DSB again, but keep the rocks off the bottom as much as possible, clean the Sand every couple weeks, and replace 1/2 of the sand every year or two.
Anyone else use this method?
Aaron
New member
There have been hundreds of discussions on this over time and at thousands of opinions...
Research the web
Read a ton
Make your own decision
... There is NO ONE RIGHT WAY, period. They are all done very successfully by many people worldwide.
I decided on skimmerless DSB becasue I can keep costs low using KISS method, has worked for 4 years and counting. I have changed lighting many times, completely mixed coral tank... nothing matters, it just works for me. YMMV
Research the web
Read a ton
Make your own decision
... There is NO ONE RIGHT WAY, period. They are all done very successfully by many people worldwide.
I decided on skimmerless DSB becasue I can keep costs low using KISS method, has worked for 4 years and counting. I have changed lighting many times, completely mixed coral tank... nothing matters, it just works for me. YMMV
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
many do, especially guys with years old sand beds. It is some work though and if not done well could lead to problems.
I too keep dsb's but am worried about the replacement issues and have considered going BB since i keep only SPS and love flow
I too keep dsb's but am worried about the replacement issues and have considered going BB since i keep only SPS and love flow
This is just one example so take it for what it is worth.
You guys have probably heard of Wiskey (James). He was a big fan of BB and of the BB fanatic (I use that in a good way ) that lives in Florida and works for NOAA. I forget his reefcentral ID.
Anyway, James tried BB. Did everything as prescribed by the BB thread: cooked rocks, bought a MR 3 skimmer with a Gen X 50, Tunzes for flow, better lighting, perfect RO water. But his SPS just wasn't doing well. After spending lots of money and time, he finally gave up.
He went to HD, bought a lot sand and now has a deep sand bed. SPS is doing much better.
I am beginning to think that there is something about having a sand bed but cleaning it every so often.
I have a DSB and SPS were going gang busters. Since I came back from Hawaii when the tank crashed, things are not doing so well. Maybe, time to replace the sand. I am way more careful now than back then with dosing, testing and everything.
You guys have probably heard of Wiskey (James). He was a big fan of BB and of the BB fanatic (I use that in a good way
) that lives in Florida and works for NOAA. I forget his reefcentral ID.Anyway, James tried BB. Did everything as prescribed by the BB thread: cooked rocks, bought a MR 3 skimmer with a Gen X 50, Tunzes for flow, better lighting, perfect RO water. But his SPS just wasn't doing well. After spending lots of money and time, he finally gave up.
He went to HD, bought a lot sand and now has a deep sand bed. SPS is doing much better.
I am beginning to think that there is something about having a sand bed but cleaning it every so often.
I have a DSB and SPS were going gang busters. Since I came back from Hawaii when the tank crashed, things are not doing so well. Maybe, time to replace the sand. I am way more careful now than back then with dosing, testing and everything.
